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I do give Triangle an edge in this category, but I find it overstated. Richmond residents don't live within some barricade where they can't access the multiple air options (within 125 miles you have National, Dulles, Orf, and if course RIC)...
Again though, Rgh gets the edge here because RDU is in town. But the advantage isn't as significant as people portray it to be, it is not nearly as much of a hassle to fly out of one of DC's airports as non-Richmonders perceive it to be. Having the various airport options available within reach is an understated amenity...
There is an incongruity into your long-standing tradition of excluding Durham amenities that are 20 minutes away from Wake County, while giving a 120-mile radius for Richmond.
I do give Triangle an edge in this category, but I find it overstated. Richmond residents don't live within some barricade where they can't access the multiple air options (within 125 miles you have National, Dulles, Orf, and if course RIC)...
Again though, Rgh gets the edge here because RDU is in town. But the advantage isn't as significant as people portray it to be, it is not nearly as much of a hassle to fly out of one of DC's airports as non-Richmonders perceive it to be. Having the various airport options available within reach is an understated amenity...
It's not an understated amenity to have other Airports that require a 2+ hour drive. ORF is useless, as Norfolk has even less service. Business travelers don't have the time or desire to fight their way up to DC on 95 to catch a morning flight. Can you imagine trying to make an 8:00am flight out of National on a Friday morning? The bottom line is that Richmond is undeserved. It's bad for the economy and their image. It's holding RVA back from being more accessible, and that's not a good thing.
I'm pretty sure Orlando's CSA isn't that big... 4.1 million in the CSA would firmly place it between the Big 4 in the South and Charlotte and Tampa in population... 2.80 million in the CSA looks right though...
I'm pretty sure Orlando's CSA isn't that big... 4.1 million in the CSA would firmly place it between the Big 4 in the South and Charlotte and Tampa in population... 2.80 million in the CSA looks right though...
As far as the topic goes, this is how I have the South's cities in tiers (no order)
Tier I: ATL, DFW, HOU, MIA
Tier II: CLT, TPA, ORL
Tier III: AUS, NSH, RDU metro
Tier IV: RICH, NOLA, JAX, RAL as the city is probably here
Tier V: BIR, maybe the Triad, at this point its watered down
large gap between I and II, smallish gap between II and III, a bit larger gap between III and IV, small gap between IV and V... side note, would add Fort Worth as its own city in probably the top of Tier III but it's tough there... San Antonio is in the same spot
Orlando’s CSA is 4.1 million, though it’s quite expansive stretching nearly 150 miles from the Jacksonville metro to the Tampa metro.
There is an incongruity into your long-standing tradition of excluding Durham amenities that are 20 minutes away from Wake County, while giving a 120-mile radius for Richmond.
Except you're being willfully misleading here, show the point where I've said Durham's amenities don't count. I've never said Rgh residents live in a bubble and can't access Durham entertainment or places, in fact I've said the opposite...
Me viewing Rgh of a stature based on the degree of offerings it provides is based on what it provides as an entire metropolis. But you know this already because I've stated it many times, you don't have to lie to kick it, Craig...
Quote:
Originally Posted by JMatl
It's not an understated amenity to have other Airports that require a 2+ hour drive. ORF is useless, as Norfolk has even less service. Business travelers don't have the time or desire to fight their way up to DC on 95 to catch a morning flight. Can you imagine trying to make an 8:00am flight out of National on a Friday morning? The bottom line is that Richmond is undeserved. It's bad for the economy and their image. It's holding RVA back from being more accessible, and that's not a good thing.
ORF isn't useless as you can find cheaper flights from there than you get at RIC...
You're also way outta your element in stating Richmond business travelers don't use DC airports...
You can have your opinion, but the reality is its hard to call a city Richmond’s size "underserved" when it abuts one of the country's largest cities and there is plenty of interchange between it and said city...
Regardless, we aren't in disagreement that Raleigh has an advantage in this regard, so I'm not sure its a point worth debating or why you really want to debate it. We only disagree on the degree of the advantage...
The bottom line is that Richmond is undeserved. It's bad for the economy and their image. It's holding RVA back from being more accessible, and that's not a good thing.
I wouldn't go that far. Richmond has seven F500/11 F1000 headquarters, which is a good bit for a metro its size; I believe two or three relocated their headquarters to the Richmond area within the past two decades. It also has major operations for other F500 companies like Capital One and BOA. Richmond's airport isn't overperforming in terms of destinations, but it appears to be sufficient in terms of generating business for the area. It's pretty much at the top of its tier (MSAs in the 1-1.5 M range roughly) in terms of metropolitan GDP.
I wouldn't go that far. Richmond has seven F500/11 F1000 headquarters, which is a good bit for a metro its size; I believe two or three relocated their headquarters to the Richmond area within the past two decades. It also has major operations for other F500 companies like Capital One and BOA. Richmond's airport isn't overperforming in terms of destinations, but it appears to be sufficient in terms of generating business for the area. It's pretty much at the top of its tier (MSAs in the 1-1.5 M range roughly) in terms of metropolitan GDP.
There's a yearslong fixation on here with pretending Rich's economy is struggling or underwhelming and its never been true lmao...
There's a yearslong fixation on here with pretending Rich's economy is struggling or underwhelming and its never been true lmao...
If you're implying I was doing that, you are way off. Richmond could thrive even more with better air service, there's no debate to be had. The fact that DC is 2 hours away is great for leisure travelers, but trust me when I tell you business people hate it. The differences between RDU & RIC are pretty dramatic in passenger #'s for two metros so close in size, with RDU having more than 3 times the passengers. On a positive note, I just saw RIC is getting their first nonstops to the West next month, to L.A. and Vegas on jetBlue. Hopefully the area will support them, this is a pretty big deal.
Except you're being willfully misleading here, show the point where I've said Durham's amenities don't count. I've never said Rgh residents live in a bubble and can't access Durham entertainment or places, in fact I've said the opposite...
Me viewing Rgh of a stature based on the degree of offerings it provides is based on what it provides as an entire metropolis. But you know this already because I've stated it many times, you don't have to lie to kick it, Craig...
You’re not gaslighting me today. You’ve been trying to wedge the Triangle apart on any number of fronts for a long time:
“ Raleigh as a city always is more realistic to view at the MSA level (and even when they recombine, to view at the Raleigh-Cary future MD)...”
“ MSA Raleigh's size by population and economy illustrate where Raleigh is”
“ Richmond doesn't have to "shoehorn" outer areas for its economic vitality, because unlike Raleigh, the economic muscle of Greater Richmond emanates from Richmond itself...”
“ I think an argument can be made that Raleigh and Durham should be viewed individually just like DC and Bmore...”
“ and I see the mistake again of assigning "The Triangle" to "Raleigh" in this thread.”
“ When I think "Raleigh", I think of the Raleigh area rather than the Raleigh-Durham area”
“ I've lived here (in Rgh) for the last 16 months. I've been to Durm 5 times.”
“ I live in Raleigh and work in Johnston County... Durham is close, but not close enough if you're not used to driving long distances for amenities, and again, my experience has been I haven't had to do a great amount of driving in my previous homes.”
“ Most people who live in central, East, and South Raleigh areas, as well as the neighboring suburbs, have the same access to Durham but we aren't going to Durham with regularity...”
Etc, etc. The gist is, you really don’t want to view Raleigh and Durham collectively. Except the pre-say 2016 you were much more open about the cities being one metro/two sides. You then went through a much more restrictive demarcation period as outlined above, and now you seem to be straddling some line which only you can properly see.
Here is where I am at. A UNC student could leave their dorm and be watching the NC symphony less than 45 minutes and that someone in Clayton could get to the DBAP in the same amount of time. Bonus points for those of us in the middle who could do either in less than 30 minutes. There are obviously two different cities here with two different vibes, but the amenities are shared. The Guggenheim remains a NY asset even if it’s skews more Upper East Side and less Yonkers.
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