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View Poll Results: Raleigh closer in stature to which group?
Austin, Nashville, Charlotte 62 59.05%
Birmingham, Memphis, Richmond 25 23.81%
Somewhere in the middle 18 17.14%
Voters: 105. You may not vote on this poll

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Old 05-20-2020, 09:53 AM
 
Location: Nashville, TN
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Raleigh is often discussed in two groups of cities depending on the criteria used. Which group is Raleigh closer in stature to?

Group 1: Austin, Nashville, Charlotte
Group 2: Birmingham, Memphis, Richmond

Culture:
Economy:
Downtown:
Shopping:
Urban Character:
Importance:
Housing:
Entertainment:
Recreation:
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Old 05-20-2020, 09:58 AM
 
Location: OC
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Group 1. Raleigh has some advantages over the cities in group 1. It is going to be a rising star soon.
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Old 05-20-2020, 10:00 AM
 
Location: Brooklyn, NY
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I think closer to Group 2, Birmingham, Memphis, Richmond, but not urban fabric or culture wise. More size-wise.

It's a very small feeling city for its population. It has a super corporate, educational and growing vibe--don't get me wrong--but it definitely is not as fast-paced as Nashville, Austin, Charlotte, and not as "city feeling" as Birmingham, Memphis or Richmond.

It is growing well, and has a terrific economy.

But I put it closer to Group 2, anyway, for now.
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Old 05-20-2020, 12:39 PM
 
Location: North Raleigh x North Sacramento
5,853 posts, read 5,657,873 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Shakeesha View Post
Raleigh is often discussed in two groups of cities depending on the criteria used. Which group is Raleigh closer in stature to?

Group 1: Austin, Nashville, Charlotte
Group 2: Birmingham, Memphis, Richmond

Culture:
Economy:
Downtown:
Shopping:
Urban Character:
Importance:
Housing:
Entertainment:
Recreation:
When I think "Raleigh", I think of the Raleigh area rather than the Raleigh-Durham area. E.g., when you head west from Wake County, you're in the Durham side of the region, but still in the Raleigh-Durham area. When you're here there are clear distinctions to both sides, it's a large interconnected metropolis but literally nobody around here considers The Triangle as "Raleigh", people are clear where Raleigh's footprint (the obviously larger footprint of the two) lies within the region; once you're west/northwest of I-540, you aren't within "Raleigh" anymore...

On here, people are gonna say it's closer to the first group of cities, because people online call the entire area Raleigh, and we have a handful of local posters who allow that misperception and feed into it as if Raleigh-Durham is synonymous with "Raleigh", or as if Raleigh has the single dominant sway of the region...

Also before I jump in here, there's a misperception that Birmingham is within this group of cities, which, for all intents and purposes, all of Bham's former peers have outgrown it into a new tier. But among these cities, I guess we'll use the basic benchmarks for how we classify cities first, before jumping into the criteria:

CSA
(21) Charlotte 2.798
(31) Raleigh-Durham 2.08
(32) Nashville 2.063
(43) Memphis 1.371
(44) Birmingham 1.318

DMA
(20) Charlotte 1.126
(27) Raleigh-Durham-Fayetteville 1.025
(28) Nashville 983
(40) Austin 737
(44) Birmingham 666
(51) Memphis 581
(54) Richmond-Petersburg 556

*RVA and ATX don't have CSA's, and obviously theres a clear correlation between CSA and DMA. Downtown to downtown Atx is 80 miles from SA, RVA is 93 miles to Nfk; if both cities had CSAs they'd include their larger neighbors to the south, as both are widely recognized as interconnected with the larger neighboring metros...

GDP
(21) Clt 169.863
(26) Atx 146.785
(34) Nashville 132.202
(43) RVA 85.793
(44) Rgh 83.666
(53) Bham 62.881

MSA
(22) Clt 2.637
(29) Atx 2.227
(36) Nashville 1.934
(42) Rgh 1.391
(43) Mem 1.346
(44) RVA 1.292
(50) Bham 1.09

UA
(31) Atx 1.667
(35) Clt 1.497
(41) Nashville 1.083
(43) Rgh 1.060
(44) RVA 1.024
(56) Bham 770

That's just what the black and white says, take from it what you choose. I've been to all these cities multiple times except Atx, actually I've lived in half the cities on the list, so I'll be back later to break it down by the criteria...
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Old 05-20-2020, 01:07 PM
 
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According to Mirriam-Webster Dictionary, the definition of stature in this context is "quality or status gained by growth, development, or achievement."

In light of that, the answer is obviously Group 1. In many cases, Raleigh is really a reference to the Triangle at large and that can't be discounted.

Within NC, Raleigh mostly means Raleigh itself in which case it doesn't quite have the same stature as Charlotte for obvious reasons, but Charlotte and the Triangle pretty much do although in different ways.
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Old 05-20-2020, 01:35 PM
 
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Raleigh alone: group #2, Raleigh/Durham: group #1.
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Old 05-20-2020, 02:24 PM
 
Location: North Raleigh x North Sacramento
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Mutiny77 View Post
According to Mirriam-Webster Dictionary, the definition of stature in this context is "quality or status gained by growth, development, or achievement."

In light of that, the answer is obviously Group 1. In many cases, Raleigh is really a reference to the Triangle at large and that can't be discounted.

Within NC, Raleigh mostly means Raleigh itself in which case it doesn't quite have the same stature as Charlotte for obvious reasons, but Charlotte and the Triangle pretty much do although in different ways.
"Raleigh" isn't a reference to "Triangle" anywhere around here, literally nobody talks like that...
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Old 05-20-2020, 03:22 PM
 
Location: North Raleigh x North Sacramento
5,853 posts, read 5,657,873 times
Reputation: 7138
Quote:
Originally Posted by Shakeesha View Post
Raleigh is often discussed in two groups of cities depending on the criteria used. Which group is Raleigh closer in stature to?

Group 1: Austin, Nashville, Charlotte
Group 2: Birmingham, Memphis, Richmond

Culture:
Economy:
Downtown:
Shopping:
Urban Character:
Importance:
Housing:
Entertainment:
Recreation:
Culture
Raleigh's culture is most familiar to Charlotte just by virtue of being in North Carolina. You can find more links of similarity to Nashville and Austin, than you can to Rich and Bham and Memphis, so I guess for this one, Group 1...

Economy
Economically it more resembles Group 1, as there are similar economic trends and characteristics to Nashville and Austin and even Charlotte...

Downtown
Group 2 by a landslide, Rgh may have the smallest downtown on this list, with arguably the lowest livel of vibrancy as well...

Shopping
This is a good one, probably right in the middle. Charlotte is significantly more upscale with a wider net of diverse shopping options, and I imagine Atx and NashVegas are similar. This is actually one of the few categories Rgh and Rich are most similar in, same level and degree of shopping, which is really good in both...

So most similar to Rich, a little above Bham and Memphis, but a level below the Group 1 cities...

Urban Character
Probably the worst of the bunch, but most similar to Group 1. Group 2 cities are less characterized by Sunbelt development and have stronger urban fabric...

Importance
Charlotte, Nashville, and Austin are nationally relevant cities. What I'll say is Rgh's national profile is more tied to its overall region, and doesn't have the singular profile of Group 1 cities. So you can say it's in the middle here, though I'd lean closer to Group 2; it ain't Group 1...
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Old 05-20-2020, 03:24 PM
 
Location: North Raleigh x North Sacramento
5,853 posts, read 5,657,873 times
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Housing
I'm guessing this pertains to cost of living, which it's closer to Group 1. Closer to Group 1 I guess in housing style, too...

Entertainment
Way closer to Group 2. Entertainment in Rgh is not even close to what's available in Clt or Nashville, and Atx as well, assuredly...

Recreation
How is this quantified? Clt and Memphis arent great cities for recreation. Bham, Rich, Nashville, and Atx are. Rgh isn't great, it has decent parks and trails and lakes, and lacks natural features of rivers or mountains to accentuate a recreational lifestyle...

You can say in the middle....

............

By my count, in the middle (3); Group 2 (3); Group 1 (4). 4 outta 10 categories, the reality is Rgh is probably in that in between phase of leaving its previous tier, and heading towards the one ahead of it----->not unlike where Nashville was at the turn of the decade, a decade ago...

Its conceivable that ten years from now we could view Rgh as firmly within the next group of cities, because Nashville and Atx weren't where they are currently, and Clt was a newcomer to it's current group, ten years ago. Of course, if we're projecting Rgh to move up, we have to also account for the potential that Group 1 cities phase up as well...

Can't have one projection without the other, and while we're at it, Rich is being sold short with this lazy grouping, as its profile and stature as a city is, like Rgh, currently separating from the likes of Memphis and Bham; likewise, while I think I agree with popular sentiment that Nashville has made it to the Clt/Atx tier, it is a new arrival to that tier and you can make the argument Nashville is still within the Group 2 tier, albeit at the front of it. Unpopular opinion, but you can conceptualize an argument for it...
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Old 05-20-2020, 05:01 PM
 
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Is Charlotte really still in that tier or is really at the bottom of the next tier? Or is it in a peculiar spot in it's own tier?
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