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Yes, I mentioned the government employee aspect and yes, the colleges are mainly in the cities. However, there are small cities and towns in the Capital Region that are moderate or even “liberal/progressive” as well. So, it isn’t necessarily the bigger cities or bust in terms of that.
Again, there is also a tech/video game cluster in the Capital Region. So, you have people that work at say Global Foundries, Regeneron and these companies mentioned in this article about the area’s video game cluster: https://www.ceg.org/articles/capital...ts-facilities/ So, there are tech professionals in the Capital Region as well.
Yes, exactly! It is but another reason why the region is different from Western Mass. In Massachusetts, commonwealth government is centered in Boston.
Yeah, those moderate towns have a very transition-into-New-England vibe. They don't compare to the "heart of New England" feel you get in Northampton, Williamstown, Amherst, Holyoke, etc. edit: heck, I bet a lot of those people in those Capital Region small towns wish they had as strong municipal prowess as do their New England counterparts.
Compare that to Waverly and Sayre, Jamestown and Erie, Bradford and Olean, Binghamton and Scranton, etc., and the Southern Tier of NY and Northern PA are like two peas in a pod. I'd say Western Mass and the Capital Region are like a peach and a plum in a fruit bowl. Similar in kind, but very different in taste.
Last edited by Muinteoir; 08-27-2022 at 10:25 AM..
Yes, exactly! It is but another reason why the region is different from Western Mass. In Massachusetts, commonwealth government is centered in Boston.
Yeah, those moderate towns have a very transition-into-New-England vibe. They don't compare to the "heart of New England" feel you get in Northampton, Williamstown, Amherst, Holyoke, etc.
Compare that to Waverly and Sayre, Jamestown and Erie, Bradford and Olean, Binghamton and Scranton, etc., and the Southern Tier of NY and Northern PA are like two peas in a pod. I'd say Western Mass and the Capital Region are like a peach and a plum in a fruit bowl. Similar in kind, but very different in taste.
Holyoke is similar to Amsterdam, in terms of being a more blue collar town with a high Hispanic population. Saratoga Springs can rival places like Northampton and Amherst, but just with a smaller college presence. So, you do have some similar types of communities between the two regions.
Also, while I agree, the Southern Tier is a less populated portion of Upstate NY. So, that still leaves the areas further north of it, which have higher populations.
Holyoke is similar to Amsterdam, in terms of being a more blue collar town with a high Hispanic population. Saratoga Springs can rival places like Northampton and Amherst, but just with a smaller college presence. So, you do have some similar types of communities between the two regions.
Also, while I agree, the Southern Tier is a less populated portion of Upstate NY. So, that still leaves the areas further north of it, which have higher populations.
Yeah, Amherst is like THE college town of New England, whereas Saratoga is known for its horse racing first and foremost. Some people think of Skidmore when they think Saratoga, but honestly, not most. Like I said, a plum and a peach.
Besides, don't you think the town meeting / municipal power structure that MA towns have vs. NY towns is noteworthy?
Yeah, those population centers along the Great Lakes, especially Buffalo, have a lot more in common with Western PA than they do anything in New England.
So I am curious. I know you are all about specificity here, which I can appreciate. But if you *had* to choose, would you say NY is more similar to New England or Pennsylvania, and why?
Yeah, Amherst is like THE college town of New England, whereas Saratoga is known for its horse racing first and foremost. Some people think of Skidmore when they think Saratoga, but honestly, not most. Like I said, a plum and a peach.
Besides, don't you think the town meeting / municipal power structure that MA towns have vs. NY towns is noteworthy?
Yeah, those population centers along the Great Lakes, especially Buffalo, have a lot more in common with Western PA than they do anything in New England.
So I am curious. I know you are all about specificity here, which I can appreciate. But if you *had* to choose, would you say NY is more similar to New England or Pennsylvania, and why?
Western New York resembles New England more closely than the Hudson Valley does. In fact, I would argue that the Hudson Valley is the region of New York most dissimilar to New England in look and feel.
Yeah, Amherst is like THE college town of New England, whereas Saratoga is known for its horse racing first and foremost. Some people think of Skidmore when they think Saratoga, but honestly, not most. Like I said, a plum and a peach.
Besides, don't you think the town meeting / municipal power structure that MA towns have vs. NY towns is noteworthy?
Yeah, those population centers along the Great Lakes, especially Buffalo, have a lot more in common with Western PA than they do anything in New England.
So I am curious. I know you are all about specificity here, which I can appreciate. But if you *had* to choose, would you say NY is more similar to New England or Pennsylvania, and why?
Personally I think it depends on where you are in NY State, which I believe I mentioned early on in the thread. I also think there are Canadian influences in the state, like a strong French Canadian population in the North Country/parts of the Adirondacks(actually the Capital Region as well).
If anything, Amherst and even Burlington VT remind me of Ithaca due to having a “liberal” reputation and a strong college/university presence. New Paltz and to a lesser degree, Oneonta are smaller places in NY with a big college presence and a more “liberal” reputation. Quite a few smaller, more progressive places in NY revolve around the Arts and not just colleges.
Personally I think it depends on where you are in NY State, which I believe I mentioned early on in the thread. I also think there are Canadian influences in the state, like a strong French Canadian population in the North Country/parts of the Adirondacks(actually the Capital Region as well).
If anything, Amherst and even Burlington VT remind me of Ithaca due to having a “liberal” reputation and a strong college/university presence. New Paltz and to a lesser degree, Oneonta are smaller places in NY with a big college presence and a more “liberal” reputation. Quite a few smaller, more progressive places in NY revolve around the Arts and not just colleges.
Sure, but I was asking if you had to choose, is the whole of New York more similar to the whole of New England, or the whole of Pennsylvania? That's the point of the thread, after all.
Yeah idk. Ithaca and the Finger Lakes feel very uniquely New York to me. Just like Lancaster is uniquely Pennsylvania, and idk, Portsmouth, NH is uniquely New England. Sure it's a liberal college town, but the impact it has on its surrounding area is more limited and the vibe to me is much more tense in Ithaca vs. conservative surrounding areas, especially when you head south toward the Southern Tier. I've never noticed that dynamic in Western Mass.
Yeah, Amherst is like THE college town of New England, whereas Saratoga is known for its horse racing first and foremost. Some people think of Skidmore when they think Saratoga, but honestly, not most. Like I said, a plum and a peach.
Besides, don't you think the town meeting / municipal power structure that MA towns have vs. NY towns is noteworthy?
Yeah, those population centers along the Great Lakes, especially Buffalo, have a lot more in common with Western PA than they do anything in New England.
So I am curious. I know you are all about specificity here, which I can appreciate. But if you *had* to choose, would you say NY is more similar to New England or Pennsylvania, and why?
New York towns had town meetings similar to New England before WW2. Although they are different now, there are still town meetings in New York that the public does participate in. https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Town_meeting
New York State seems to have been originally more like New England but has been gradually adopting more of the Mid-Atlantic systems like Pennsylvania and New Jersey. For instance, Counties in New York were weak and mostly just about the county courts but since the spread of suburbia after WW2 they have been gaining additional powers (which is good in my opinion).
Sure, but I was asking if you had to choose, is the whole of New York more similar to the whole of New England, or the whole of Pennsylvania? That's the point of the thread, after all.
Yeah idk. Ithaca and the Finger Lakes feel very uniquely New York to me. Just like Lancaster is uniquely Pennsylvania, and idk, Portsmouth, NH is uniquely New England. Sure it's a liberal college town, but the impact it has on its surrounding area is more limited and the vibe to me is much more tense in Ithaca vs. conservative surrounding areas, especially when you head south toward the Southern Tier. I've never noticed that dynamic in Western Mass.
I wouldn’t choose this as an “either or”, because I think it comes down to proximity and there is crossover. Some parts may fit better in either one of them, but there are also some things that are distinct as well.
Tompkins County outside of Ithaca is more moderate, but as a whole, I’d say it is at least moderate outside of the city and even nearby areas like Watkins Glen and Cortland can have spillover due to many Cornell employees actually living in adjacent counties like Schuyler and Cortland Counties. Even to the north, you have a town like Aurora in Cayuga County that has tiny Wells College, a former all female college, that is now co-ed. So, you have that small town, small private college dynamic that you see in New England.
Keuka College near Penn Yan(a community’s name which speak to the crossover I’m referring to), Cazenovia College in Cazenovia(east of Syracuse), Hamilton College in Clinton(outside of Utica), perhaps even Colgate in Hamilton(in between Syracuse and Utica), St. Lawrence in Canton(in the North Country about 25-30 minutes from the Canadian border, also has a SUNY campus) and Alfred University in Alfred(in the Southern Tier directly south of Rochester, also has a SUNY campus), among some others, are other small town college towns with a small private college/university in NY. I’m not sure how prevalent this is in PA, but many of these communities are villages that might have 5000 people tops and is something that seems to be in line with New England in that regard. In fact, Hamilton College is in the New England Small College Athletic Conference for sports.
Sure, but I was asking if you had to choose, is the whole of New York more similar to the whole of New England, or the whole of Pennsylvania? That's the point of the thread, after all.
Yeah idk. Ithaca and the Finger Lakes feel very uniquely New York to me. Just like Lancaster is uniquely Pennsylvania, and idk, Portsmouth, NH is uniquely New England. Sure it's a liberal college town, but the impact it has on its surrounding area is more limited and the vibe to me is much more tense in Ithaca vs. conservative surrounding areas, especially when you head south toward the Southern Tier. I've never noticed that dynamic in Western Mass.
There’s a veryyy tense vibe between Springfield and it’s suburbs. Springfield has a few colleges but it’s not a college town like Ithaca. I’d also be surprised if Hampden account his more educated than the Capital Region NY
Brockton is another example of that but it’s not a college town at all.
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