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Williamsport is a city of 30,000 or so, while South Corning is a small village of maybe 1000 people outside of a city of roughly 11,000. So, there is a difference.
Also, all of those counties in Central PA have decent sized to small cities that are getting that Hispanic growth like Harrisburg, Lancaster, York, Lebanon, Chambersburg, Carlisle and Gettysburg, whereas those NY communities I mentioned have been that way for decades(if not longer) due to farm workers from the South and some migration from NYC. Plus many of them are villages and/or towns.
Anyway, my point is that rural NY isn't monolithic and can have its diverse and "progressive" communities(i.e.-some in the Hudson Valley) rural/small towns that are more moderate to Democrat leaning.
Well yeah obviously there is a difference, but at the end of the day, they are both small cities. So to answer your question, sure New York has a smaller city with a mayor of color. Pennsylvania has a small city with a mayor of color.
To your second point, okay. Sorry, but I am not seeing the real relevance to any of my points.
New York can, yes, and overall there are some more of those than in Pennsylvania. But when you look at New England's rural political/socioeconomic composition, NY's rural political/socioeconomic composition, and PA's rural political/socioeconomic composition, one is sure to find NY much closer to PA than NE.
I counted 41/62 counties in NYS going for Trump.
I counted 50/67 counties in PA going for Trump
I counted 13 counties in the entirety of New England, most of which came from Maine, which of course is an entirely different cultural area than New York State. Of New York's bordering New England states, there were but 3 counties that went for Trump.
Well yeah obviously there is a difference, but at the end of the day, they are both small cities. So to answer your question, sure New York has a smaller city with a mayor of color. Pennsylvania has a small city with a mayor of color.
To your second point, okay. Sorry, but I am not seeing the real relevance to any of my points.
New York can, yes, and overall there are some more of those than in Pennsylvania. But when you look at New England's rural political/socioeconomic composition, NY's rural political/socioeconomic composition, and PA's rural political/socioeconomic composition, one is sure to find NY much closer to PA than NE.
I counted 41/62 counties in NYS going for Trump.
I counted 50/67 counties in PA going for Trump
I counted 13 counties in the entirety of New England, most of which came from Maine, which of course is an entirely different cultural area than New York State. Of New York's bordering New England states, there were but 3 counties that went for Trump.
Agreed with this.
I went to school in rural Upstate New York and it was nearly identical to rural Pennsylvania. Western and rural new England is a whole different animal. Completely different feel, people and mindsets (For better or worse depending on your where you stand).
I think when you compare that Philadelphia is similar to the built environment of New York, and Pittsburgh + Buffalo could make comparison.. PA is unquestionably similar to NYS.
Well yeah obviously there is a difference, but at the end of the day, they are both small cities. So to answer your question, sure New York has a smaller city with a mayor of color. Pennsylvania has a small city with a mayor of color.
To your second point, okay. Sorry, but I am not seeing the real relevance to any of my points.
New York can, yes, and overall there are some more of those than in Pennsylvania. But when you look at New England's rural political/socioeconomic composition, NY's rural political/socioeconomic composition, and PA's rural political/socioeconomic composition, one is sure to find NY much closer to PA than NE.
I counted 41/62 counties in NYS going for Trump.
I counted 50/67 counties in PA going for Trump
I counted 13 counties in the entirety of New England, most of which came from Maine, which of course is an entirely different cultural area than New York State. Of New York's bordering New England states, there were but 3 counties that went for Trump.
South Corning isn’t a city, but it is a tiny village though. Corning is a separate municipality that has its own mayor. That is my point and why I asked if you can find local examples from PA that are similar.
Also, relevance to you point is that those PA counties aren’t that rural because they have cities that are getting that diversity not small towns like the NY examples I gave.
Now, the problem with using the presidential results is that people vote for presidents for different reasons. For instance, some may have voted for him because he is from NY or his business background.
You also have to consider how many counties are actually quite rural in New England. Southern New England pretty much has cities within no more than an hour from each other, if that. So, in terms of New England, you are really talking about Northern New England in terms of rural areas.
South Corning isn’t a city, but it is a tiny village though. Corning is a separate municipality that has its own mayor. That is my point and why I asked if you can find local examples from PA that are similar.
Also, relevance to you point is that those PA counties aren’t that rural because they have cities that are getting that diversity not small towns like the NY examples I gave.
Now, the problem with using the presidential results is that people vote for presidents for different reasons. For instance, some may have voted for him because he is from NY or his business background.
You also have to consider how many counties are actually quite rural in New England. Southern New England pretty much has cities within no more than an hour from each other, if that. So, in terms of New England, you are really talking about Northern New England in terms of rural areas.
Staten Island and Suffolk County and Genesee County all voted for Trump. NYC literally has a Republican congressman while the Northwoods of Maine has a Democrat. It’s quite different.
I went to school in rural Upstate New York and it was nearly identical to rural Pennsylvania. Western and rural new England is a whole different animal. Completely different feel, people and mindsets (For better or worse depending on your where you stand).
I think when you compare that Philadelphia is similar to the built environment of New York, and Pittsburgh + Buffalo could make comparison.. PA is unquestionably similar to NYS.
Oswego County is different than the rural areas I mentioned earlier demographically, minus maybe the city of Oswego due to the college and small, but visible Hispanic and black populations. It doesn’t have true small towns with at least decent diversity in some communities in those counties.
What places in NY do you think look similar to Philadelphia?
Personally, I think it depends on where you are in NY and there is some crossover or even distinction between NY and both of those areas(i.e.- still waiting on small/rural towns with some degree of diversity outside of those in Monroe County PA).
South Corning isn’t a city, but it is a tiny village though. Corning is a separate municipality that has its own mayor. That is my point and why I asked if you can find local examples from PA that are similar.
Also, relevance to you point is that those PA counties aren’t that rural because they have cities that are getting that diversity not small towns like the NY examples I gave.
Now, the problem with using the presidential results is that people vote for presidents for different reasons. For instance, some may have voted for him because he is from NY or his business background.
You also have to consider how many counties are actually quite rural in New England. Southern New England pretty much has cities within no more than an hour from each other, if that. So, in terms of New England, you are really talking about Northern New England in terms of rural areas.
Okay… The difference for the purpose of the discussion is minute and irrelevant to my overall point. I was typing quickly because I’m getting around for my day, lol. Yeah I am very familiar I grew up in the Corning area so I don’t need a schooling on New York State municipal government structures. South Corning is a small area. William sport is a small area. They are both are having a history of moderate to straight up conservatism, but they both have a Democrat as a matter. It’s really not that big of a deal in the grand picture of New York’s rural conservativism versus New England’s rural centrism/progressivism.
Actually, I would say that presidential election is one of the best ways to cross compare the political ethos of various regions. It is the one election in which everyone in the country votes on the same candidates. The problem with using state or municipal governments is that candidates are various parties will moderate themselves if they are in more conservative or liberal areas/states to be more competitive.
And sorry, very few New Yorkers, rural or urban, would vote for Trump just because he’s from New York. He is way too polarizing of a figure for his home state to make much of a difference.
Staten Island and Suffolk County and Genesee County all voted for Trump. NYC literally has a Republican congressman while the Northwoods of Maine has a Democrat. It’s quite different.
I’m sure some years a couple of those counties have gone the other way. Genesee County is a more rural county in between Buffalo and Rochester minus the small city of Batavia.
As for the other post, you would be surprised why people voted for him. This is why the voting angle can be influenced by a variety of personal factors or people/area may actually flip for different reasons. Voting Democrat doesn’t necessarily equate to “liberal” either.
Again, where are the rural/small towns with diversity in New England or PA outside of Monroe County? Just throwing this out in general.
I’m sure some years a couple of those counties have gone the other way. Genesee County is a more rural county in between Buffalo and Rochester minus the small city of Batavia.
As for the other post, you would be surprised why people voted for him. This is why the voting angle can be influenced by a variety of personal factors or people/area may actually flip for different reasons. Voting Democrat doesn’t necessarily equate to “liberal” either.
Again, where are the rural/small towns with diversity in New England or PA outside of Monroe County? Just throwing this out in general.
The difference is Genesee County is like 80% Republican, across the board. Nowhere in New England is like that.
Lewiston Maine, and Hanover NH are diverse for Northern New England.
Again, where are the rural/small towns with diversity in New England or PA outside of Monroe County? Just throwing this out in general.
To answer your question, small town non-metro New England and Pennsylvania are similarly lily white. Nothing to contest on that point, and there's no question that NY State is more racially/ethnically diverse across the board than either small town PA or New England. There are absolutely aspects about NY that make it distinct from anywhere else in the Northeast, and (along with NJ) its thoroughly entrenched level of diversity is one of them.
Regarding politics, I've come to learn myself that New England is a lot more political diverse than it gets credit for--there are plenty of conservative pockets in the region, even without being represented by a "red" county. That being said, it stands to reason that a given area of rural New England is more likely to be at least a shade bluer than rural NY. I'll also concede that a given area of rural PA is also likely to be a shade redder than a given rural area in NY.
That being said, the fundamental dynamic of the big, liberally-inclined metro areas versus the much more conservative hinterlands does indeed appear to apply much more in both PA and NY than much of New England, the one of the very few regions in the US that complicates that principle.
Last edited by Duderino; 08-22-2022 at 07:56 AM..
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