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QOL: Lean Virginia
COL: Lean Arizona, but Virginia has some very inexpensive areas like the Shenadoah Valley and Richmond/Hampton Roads is about even with metro Phoenix
Public Transit: Virginia, solely for NoVA, including the Virginia Railway Express, but Richmond has a decent bus system
Universities: Lean Virginia. ASU is nearly as good as UVA, but VA also has William and Mary
Economy:
Wealth: Tie. Northern Virginia is wealthier than anywhere in Arizona, but Southside/Appalachian VA drags it down.
Character: Arizona. Virginia is just another east coast state with a similar feel than can be found in nearby states.
Politics: Arizona. More live-and-let-live.
Suburbs: Tie
Schools: Virginia
Urban Cores: Virginia
Diversity: Arizona
Climate: Arizona in the winter, Virginia in the other seasons, so an edge to Virginia here
Shopping: Tie
Food: Tie
Road Network/Traffic: Arizona
Sports: Arizona, due to all major league sports having a presence in metro Phoenix as well as MLB spring training and recreational opportunities.
Quick Getaways/Recreation/Parks/Beaches: Virginia
Economic Future: Tie
Job/Housing Market: Tie
Nightlife/Entertainment: Virginia due to Wolf Trap, Jiffy Lube Live, two major amusement parks, and access to DC
History/Museums: Virginia by far
Overall, Virginia dukes this one out, although Arizona has some good selling points and if you're retired, offers a nice snowbird destination with a somewhat lower cost of living.
Quote:
Originally Posted by Penna76
Sedona is nicer than Scottsdale IMO. At least if you are looking for the perfect balance of quaint, scenic, resort. I will say nothing in Virginia can compare with Sedona, Arizona.
Although Scottsdale is very nice.
Scottsdale is known as a resort area. In some ways it is similar to Palm Springs, CA, except it is part of the Phoenix metro, whereas Palm Springs, is really quite removed from LA and on the fringe of the Inland Empire.
Many of Scottsdale's most wealthy residents, do not reside in Scottsdale full time, but have their 2nd/3rd/4th vacation home located there. (Many from the Northeast).
As shocking as it sounds, a lot of people really dislike that Southeast Humidity and prefer the dry desert heat in terms of locations they desire to have vacation homes.
Sedona, Flagstaff, Grand Canyon. Are really some of the most beautiful areas of the USA.
I think when most people think of Arizona, they only picture its desert climate which Phoenix is known for.
But Northern Arizona, in many ways resembles Colorado with a predominance of Evergreen trees, Mountainous Terrain, and lots of snow.
Both AZ and VA are actually very similar though in many other ways on paper.
Nearly the same population, and GDP.
Both are different mainly from a historic vantage point. (Not going to find that really in AZ). Which gives VA a leg up if you like that East Coast Colonial history.
Metro Phoenix is significantly larger than the Virginia portion of the DC metro though.
I vote Arizona. It has more variety in its terrain, it has a unique and diverse culture and it really stands out to me more. The Phoenix metro is also larger than NOVA and offers more.
I also prefer SOCAL beaches over North Carolina beaches. And most people from Virginia travel to North Carolina for beach life.
Keep in mind that NOVA seamlessly blends with DC and suburban MD, and is just as big and offers at least as much as the Phoenix metro. So I don't think its fair if you discount the rest of the DMV.
Also, its a real stretch to say that the #1 destination for beachgoers in VA by far is NC. NC doesn't have a beach resort with miles of condo mid-and highrises, a boardwalk, and bumper-to-bumper traffic, but its a stretch to say that a majority prefer those beach environments. I mostly find NC beaches for simply passing time or enjoying natural scenery, but I find most of those resorts rather boring in terms of cultural amenities, with the possible exception being around the Carolina Beach area. Maybe in rural southside VA, but not the suburban/urban city folk who like bars, a nice variety of restaurants, and entertainment that the "boardwalk and condo" resorts offer. You can get to beaches in Delaware, Maryland, and in NoVa, the Jersey Shore quicker than you can get to the NC beaches. I'd say only about 20-30% of Virginians use the NC beaches as their "go to" beach destination. VA Beach, Ocean City MD, the Delaware beaches, and even the Grand Strand of SC seem to have just as many beachgoers.
To recap, Arizona as its own merits. I just don't want to live there due to the punishing summers. At least there's lots of water in Virginia to cool off, and the season ends a little sooner.
Scottsdale is not a resort area. It never has been. It’s a wealthy suburb of a major city, akin to Plano for Dallas. I’m sick of outsiders and transplants trying to define what we are and what we offer. Scottsdale might have a couple nice hotels, sure, that doesn’t mean it’s a resort area. Scottsdale, like 99% of cities in Arizona, have more full-time populations than the other way around. While we sit around 4.5 MILLION full-time residential people in the summer, we add approximately 500,000 or so snowbirds everywhere. That is significant, but I believe that is the statewide statistic, not just Phoenix metro. This is why our average age across the cities in the Phoenix metro is 21, not 40+ like certain cities in Florida.
Arizona is over 3/4 desert or so and has ALL BUT ONE deserts that exist on the North American continent. Picturing a desert for Arizona should be expected, not our Colorado-lite areas. To assume all of our deserts have saguaros on the other hand is an ignorant depiction of the varying deserts we offer. Most of northern Arizona is a desert, the Great Basin in fact, with the Painted Desert and the Grand Canyon falling in that. But it’s also ignorant to assume we are entirely desert. We are the 2nd most ecologically varied state in the Union, behind California, and we should be treated as such.
Nonetheless, Arizona is underrated as a whole.
Scottsdale is 100% a resort area. Very similar to Palm Springs, California.
I have been many many times. I know people from where I live in the Northeast who go specifically for the resort experience and to escape the Northeast Cold.
I also voted Arizona. So I am not sure what you are really saying with this???
Scottsdale is not a resort area. It never has been. It’s a wealthy suburb of a major city, akin to Plano for Dallas. I’m sick of outsiders and transplants trying to define what we are and what we offer. Scottsdale might have a couple nice hotels, sure, that doesn’t mean it’s a resort area. Scottsdale, like 99% of cities in Arizona, have more full-time populations than the other way around. While we sit around 4.5 MILLION full-time residential people in the summer, we add approximately 500,000 or so snowbirds everywhere. That is significant, but I believe that is the statewide statistic, not just Phoenix metro. This is why our average age across the cities in the Phoenix metro is 21, not 40+ like certain cities in Florida.
Arizona is over 3/4 desert or so and has ALL BUT ONE deserts that exist on the North American continent. Picturing a desert for Arizona should be expected, not our Colorado-lite areas. To assume all of our deserts have saguaros on the other hand is an ignorant depiction of the varying deserts we offer. Most of northern Arizona is a desert, the Great Basin in fact, with the Painted Desert and the Grand Canyon falling in that. But it’s also ignorant to assume we are entirely desert. We are the 2nd most ecologically varied state in the Union, behind California, and we should be treated as such.
Nonetheless, Arizona is underrated as a whole.
Here is some more information on Scottsdale.
It is 100% a resort area.
Quote below:
"The tourism industry is Scottsdale's primary employer, accounting for 39% of the city's workforce. In 2005, Scottsdale attracted over 7.5 million visitors to the city, providing an economic impact of over $3.1 billion.[65]
The city of Scottsdale is tied with Atlanta for fourth, after New York City, Las Vegas, and Chicago respectively, as having the most AAA Five-Diamond hotels and resorts in the United States. In 2015, AAA bestowed four such properties in Scottsdale with the highest honor: The Phoenician and The Canyon Suites, part of The Luxury Collection, Four Seasons Hotels Scottsdale at Troon North, and the Fairmont Hotels and Resorts Princess Resort and Spa.[66]
As of 2016, Scottsdale has the highest number of destination spas per capita of any city in the United States.[67]
The region's year-round warm weather and abundant sunshine is a major factor in Scottsdale's tourism appeal. In particular, during the winter, thousands of tourists and retirees from the midwest, the northeast, and as far away as Canada (known locally as "snowbirds"), flood the area with visits from brief to long term. Those who practice the same migration routine annually often end up purchasing winter homes in the area."
End Quote.
Scottsdale is a major destination for the wealthy to travel and relax, similar to Palm Springs, but it attracts many from the Northeast and Upper Midwest who dislike the Southeast Humidity.
A lot of people dislike Florida's humidity. The Arizona dry heat is seen as more attractive.
And as I accurately stated, many who own homes in Scottsdale, own them as vacation homes for the winter season.
Scottsdale is not just "another wealthy suburb".
It is more of a resort destination. I would say nearly a 1/3 of the homes in Scottsdale are owned as 2nd homes from wealthy individuals from the Northeast and Upper Midwest.
I lived in NoVA/DC for 20 years, but would give the edge to Arizona for the following reasons:
-Scenery - far more interesting mix of cacti, palm trees, mountains
-Weather - the dry heat bothers me less, especially at night, than oppressive humidity, plus the much warmer winters mean you can do more outside year round and you get the scenery payoff mentioned above
-Economy - Virginia is better educated BUT the state's economy, in both Hampton Roads and Northern VA, is heavily dependent on the Federal Gov't. The corporate culture in NoVa is defined by CYA Tyson's Corner cube jockeys. There is a remarkable lack of innovation. I knew it was time to leave the area when I went to a Northern VA Tech Council event and 1/2 the crowd was wearing ties and the big discussion point wasn't what's the future of AI, or some new product development, but rather how to sell to a government agency's CIO.
-Beaches - Driving 5 hours to San Diego/La Jolla/Coronado blows away driving 5 hours in crazy traffic to get to Oeewshin Sh-tty or VA Beach.
Scottsdale is 100% a resort area. Very similar to Palm Springs, California.
I have been many many times. I know people from where I live in the Northeast who go specifically for the resort experience and to escape the Northeast Cold.
I also voted Arizona. So I am not sure what you are really saying with this???
This is not accurate. Scottsdale is also home to several headquarters and emerging technology centers. The area is not just popular with retirees, but young families as well. Scottsdale is business friendly and offers a nice arts community as well.
This is not accurate. Scottsdale is also home to several headquarters and emerging technology centers. The area is not just popular with retirees, but young families as well. Scottsdale is business friendly and offers a nice arts community as well.
Scottsdale is 100% a resort area. Very similar to Palm Springs, California.
I have been many many times. I know people from where I live in the Northeast who go specifically for the resort experience and to escape the Northeast Cold.
I also voted Arizona. So I am not sure what you are really saying with this???
I'd call Sedona a resort town and Palm Springs. Scottsdale isn't defined by resorts, it has a large economy outside of the resorts and is home to many corporate HQs like Taser, Go Daddy, Harkins Theaters, Discount Tire, Honor Health, Magellan Health. Also, many of the more famous resorts your friends probably stay at aren't even in Scottsdale. Places like the Phoenician, the Biltmore, Royal Palms, JW Marriott, Omni, Sanctuary, Mountain Shadows aren't even in Scottsdale City limits.
I'd call Sedona a resort town and Palm Springs. Scottsdale isn't defined by resorts, it has a large economy outside of the resorts and is home to many corporate HQs like Taser, Go Daddy, Harkins Theaters, Discount Tire, Honor Health, Magellan Health. Also, many of the more famous resorts your friends probably stay at aren't even in Scottsdale. Places like the Phoenician, the Biltmore, Royal Palms, JW Marriott, Omni, Sanctuary, Mountain Shadows aren't even in Scottsdale City limits.
Yes this. Now calling Paradise Valley a resort area... I'd agree with.
I'm not sure if you can use 6 hour away beaches in a completely different state as a plus for Arizona but in the same breath separate NOVA from the rest of the DC metro because "its not Virginia." Its intellectually dishonest. Its 360 miles from Mission beach to Phoenix. That type of distance from Virginia gets you all the way to Rhode Island. Again, it seems kinda intellectually dishonest to pretend that Virginia only has access to VA beach and NC beaches when we are using almost 400 miles for Phoenix. Its only 338 miles from Emporia, VA to Charleston. I do like Arizona ALOT. I just want us to be realistic about what we are discussing as 5 hours isn't a day trip and its def not in Arizona. Arizona has some things going for it over Virginia. Access to beaches is not one of them.
I'm not sure if you can use 6 hour away beaches in a completely different state as a plus for Arizona but in the same breath separate NOVA from the rest of the DC metro because "its not Virginia." Its intellectually dishonest. Its 360 miles from Mission beach to Phoenix. That type of distance from Virginia gets you all the way to Rhode Island. Again, it seems kinda intellectually dishonest to pretend that Virginia only has access to VA beach and NC beaches when we are using almost 400 miles for Phoenix. Its only 338 miles from Emporia, VA to Charleston. I do like Arizona ALOT. I just want us to be realistic about what we are discussing as 5 hours isn't a day trip and its def not in Arizona. Arizona has some things going for it over Virginia. Access to beaches is not one of them.
I don't disagree with you on the NOVA/DC points, they're totally interrelated and the fact that an invisible state boarder exists is pretty much meaningless.
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