Please register to participate in our discussions with 2 million other members - it's free and quick! Some forums can only be seen by registered members. After you create your account, you'll be able to customize options and access all our 15,000 new posts/day with fewer ads.
Though Demographia gets out of control with things (Boston and Providence -43.3 miles- are one urban area? Uh, no.)
Out of curiosity, where would you draw the line between the two if you were creating the definitions? Foxborough, Mansfield, Attleboro, or somewhere else?
Status:
"See My Blog Entries for my Top 500 Most Important USA Cities"
(set 7 days ago)
Location: Harrisburg, PA
1,051 posts, read 977,160 times
Reputation: 1406
Quote:
Originally Posted by Boston Shudra
Out of curiosity, where would you draw the line between the two if you were creating the definitions? Foxborough, Mansfield, Attleboro, or somewhere else?
For a city as big as Boston I would say 10-12 hours walking distance from the core. So 30 miles give or take. I'd say 495 is roughly the cut-off (at that spot/direction, as 495 is not the dividing line for its entirety-goes too wide). So, Mansfield, MA, or shortly thereafter. Attleboro is 33.7 miles which is pushing it a bit too far. Definitely nothing within Rhode Island.
Edit (going off topic): I think NYC + Stamford is the furthest stretch I gave in my assumptions. 40.6 miles.
1) it's NYC with the strongest gravity well of any US city
2) you would reach hyper urban Bronx in less distance (25.7 miles)
3) NYC wealthy suburbs are well known to be Greenwich next to Stamford
4) NYC is referred to as a tri-state area
5) Commuter train from Stamford to NYC, right?
6) I don't need to add any more. It's a strong enough connection and the furthest distance core to core urban area combination (I think) in my assumptions
For a city as big as Boston I would say 10-12 hours walking distance from the core. So 30 miles give or take. I'd say 495 is roughly the cut-off (at that spot/direction, as 495 is not the dividing line for its entirety-goes too wide). So, Mansfield, MA, or shortly thereafter. Attleboro is 33.7 miles which is pushing it a bit too far. Definitely nothing within Rhode Island.
Yeah that's fair and about right. I'll say, though, that per google maps it'd be about 11.5hrs to walk from Boston to Cumberland, RI.
How about with Worcester? Particularly should Marlborough and Hudson count toward Worcester's UA or Boston's?
Do you think it's ok for Webster and Southbridge to be in Worcester's UA or Woonsocket and Fall River to be in Providence's? There are a lot of rural towns between those cities. At the very least I don't think Putnam CT should be in Worcester's UA despite some density along I-395.
While I'm at it, I think you have New London too low on your list in the OP. Between Pfizer, Electric Boat, Connecticut College, Mystic Seaport/Aquarium, Foxwoods, Mohegan Sun, and the Sub Base it's a pretty important little UA. I think it should be among the likes of Kalamazoo and Atlantic City.
Last edited by Boston Shudra; 04-19-2021 at 06:48 PM..
Yeah, Charlotte is growing faster but St. Louis is still the bigger metro area, and a lot bigger than you seem to think it is.
Sorry that was a typo on my end I meant to put 2.8 million for St. Louis however Charlotte is actually at 2.76 million..its splitting hairs when it comes to population...
Status:
"See My Blog Entries for my Top 500 Most Important USA Cities"
(set 7 days ago)
Location: Harrisburg, PA
1,051 posts, read 977,160 times
Reputation: 1406
Boston Shudra:
Marlborough and Hudson barely get pulled into Boston's gravity well I think. Boston is larger and has a FAR stronger "gravitational pull" to its core. Also, neither M or H are located in Worcester County. IF, hypothetically, Boston did not exist, and was not located on the other side of M and H, I would normally say, yes, these two would get pulled into Worcester. However, I think they definitely belong in Boston's UA. That is a good example of "chopping up" / dividing a developed area into different UA's. New England and the greater BosWash corridor have numerous contiguous developed tracts/UA's.
First off just so everyone can follow: Worcester to Boston is 43.2 miles (14 hours 24 minutes) by walking. Definitely not the same urban area.
Going west to east now:
Worcester to Marlborough is 15.5 miles and Marlborough to Boston is 28.3 miles
Worcester to Hudson is 17.0 miles and Hudson to Boston is 29.5 miles
Again, I would probably use the I-495 outer beltway as the dividing line for Boston's UA at that particular spot (again, I-495 is NOT the defining line for the entirety of Boston's UA, it just seems convenient to use in this example at this spot).
Webster belongs in Worcester's UA (16.3 mi). Southbridge is a bit more iffy though (18.5 mi). You are getting into that gray area again. The distance matches, but it does not look like there is much development between Worcester and Southbridge. I would have to think about this one, I'm ever-so-slightly leaning toward a yes though. I would definitely NOT include Putnam CT in Worcester's UA, at all (27.5 mi). Despite the development links, this is simply too far (geographically) for Worcester to pull in. Also the fact that it is in another state, given the distance argument, further solidifies the argument for excluding it. It would open up a proverbial "can of worms" with other UA's if we allowed it.
Woonsocket (15.3 mi) and Fall River, MA (18.8 mi) definitely both belong in Providence's UA. I have been quoting walking distance thus far for all, but oddly the driving distances are slightly less for these two (15.0 mi and 18.8 mi respectively, sometimes that happens with highways). I would also add that Newport, RI does not belong in Providence's UA (we have to use driving distance with this one, at 33.7 mi, since walking between the two involves a ferry).
I know not of the particulars of the region itself, nor its commuting patterns, historical ties/connections, cultural influences. I am merely utilizing Google maps and my own assumptions about relative distance, development, size, etc. I bumped-up New London to #174 from #181, and I may consider bumping up again. Didn't realize Foxwoods was there. I thought Pfizer was HQ'd in NYC though, do they have a large presence in NL?
BI thought Pfizer was HQ'd in NYC though, do they have a large presence in NL?
They’re across the river in Groton, technically, but yes. The site has 2.8 million square feet of space and has around 2,600 employees per this source.
7 or 8, does it really make a difference?
There are tons of arguments for either but neither is clearly above the other.
When it is this close it is more a matter of preference.
I agree, props to G500 for the hardwork and squibling over 7 vs 8 is kinda petty.
Please register to post and access all features of our very popular forum. It is free and quick. Over $68,000 in prizes has already been given out to active posters on our forum. Additional giveaways are planned.
Detailed information about all U.S. cities, counties, and zip codes on our site: City-data.com.
Please register to participate in our discussions with 2 million other members - it's free and quick! Some forums can only be seen by registered members. After you create your account, you'll be able to customize options and access all our 15,000 new posts/day with fewer ads.
