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You said urban core, not downtown. The urban core (which expands beyond downtown) is as mixed use and amenity filled as any major city in the country. It's not in discussions for being "so so". The District itself is a small geographic federal capital. Much of your earlier post becomes moot at the metro level.
But even as a city it's ahead of Philadelphia and Boston:
Washington D.C. proper 2020 (pop. 689,000)
Real GDP $122 billion (2021 "state" estimates= $156 billion)
Philadelphia (County), PA 2020 (pop. 1,584,064)
Real GDP $97 billion
Suffolk County, MA (includes Boston, Chelsea, Revere, Winthrop) 2020 (pop. 797,000)
Real GDP $117 billion
Washington D.C. proper 144 million sq ft of office space
Philadelphia (Center City 42 million) city wide between 59-70 million sq ft of office
Boston proper 71 million sq ft of office space
Michelin starred restaurants city proper:
Washington- 22
Philadelphia- 0
Boston- 0
Washington DC city budget 2023: $19.5 billion
Philadelphia proposed budget 2022: $5.5 billion
Boston proposed operating budget $3.99 billion
So umm yeah... not sure why you've singled DC out here...
One quibble, not sure how Michelin stars are relevant? And Michelin is not in the Philadelphia or Boston markets. And I think most would agree Philadelphia is a standout food city.
Philadelphia especially, as it is a larger version of Baltimore. A big "nothing burger".
First, your response is ill-informed.
Second, I won't dive into the history too much, but Philadelphia and Boston (and New York) are older cities and have been major centers in politics, economics, industry, culture, history, etc., since the 1600s.
DC was created from a blank slate as a capital city and acted as just that for a long time and also went through a very downtrodden period in the 20th century. The DC of today is clearly different and much more influential, but it's not a shock (at least to me) that DC is more similar to Boston and Philadelphia than New York, even though it's the capital.
Location: That star on your map in the middle of the East Coast, DMV
8,128 posts, read 7,552,695 times
Reputation: 5785
Quote:
Originally Posted by btownboss4
The 4% GDP advantage over Boston isn’t really what he is taking about. He means it’s not Mexico City or Beijing or Madrid or Berlin where is not the primate city it’s right on the mix, rather than clearly in the third tier or something with the Boston, Philly and Dallas’s of the world
Which isn’t really a good argument. DC is pretty typical of New World Capitals, for every Mexico City or Buenos Aries there is a Brazilia or Ottawa
That percentage difference was DC proper vs Suffolk County, not Boston proper.
I'm not sure those comparisons make sense, especially Mexico City or Beijing as those are a mega city proper. DC proper doesn't add up to Madrid and Berlin, but as we all know the US is more metro area based and they are all same tier metropolises globally.
Quote:
Originally Posted by jpdivola
Yeah, this what I meant. It has an unrivaled network of parks, museums, cultural institutes, and a massive federal workforce all subsidized by the federal government. But, it hasn't been able to leverage it's federal base to become a big major world city. As you point out this is an issue for all planned capitals. Obviously it will never be London or Tokyo. But it could be a lot more than it is. The MSA has some non fed related private sector. And yes, it's fairly dense and walkable by US standards. But DC proper is still a midsized company town.
Regarding city proper I agree with your final sentence, but the rest of this is just downplaying it. "The MSA has some non fed related private sector" lol. The DC MSA has more Fortune 500 companies than Los Angeles metropolitan area. But back to your original statement there's nothing "so-so" about the urban core of Washington it's right outside the top 5 in most people's assessments
Pretty odd thread to call it a "top 3 miss" IMO, but you guys carry on, not getting into a DC vs tangent here.
Last edited by the resident09; 07-15-2022 at 09:45 AM..
Location: That star on your map in the middle of the East Coast, DMV
8,128 posts, read 7,552,695 times
Reputation: 5785
Quote:
Originally Posted by Heel82
While not wrong I will say being in the middle of the federal zone of DC on a weekend is killer when looking for food options that don't involve museums. It's massive blocks upon blocks of unrelenting heat while you scurry to the edges to find a city again. Most other cities have better integrated their tourism areas with the city, so it jumps out more in DC.
This post sounds like you're unfamiliar with what the DC "urban core" is...Anywho carry on.
That percentage difference was DC proper vs Suffolk County, not Boston proper.
I'm not sure those comparisons make sense, especially Mexico City or Beijing as those are a mega city proper. DC proper doesn't add up to Madrid and Berlin, but as we all know the US is more metro area based and they are all same tier metropolises globally.
Regarding city proper I agree with your final sentence, but the rest of this is just downplaying it. "The MSA has some non fed related private sector" lol. The DC MSA has more Fortune 500 companies than Los Angeles metropolitan area. But back to your original statement there's nothing "so-so" about the urban core of Washington it's right outside the top 5 in most people's assessments
Pretty odd thread to call it a "top 3 miss" IMO, but you guys carry on, not getting into a DC vs tangent here.
Suffolk County is 57 sq miles so it’s really an apples to apples comparison.
But regardless, yes DC is somewhat the size of Madrid but Spain has the economy the size of Florida. Germany is 1/4 the size of the US, so you’d expect proportionally DC to be a bigger. Berlin and Madrid are primate or peers with the biggest cities in their countries. They’re not London/Britain or Paris/France but they set the tone for their countries
Although I think that’s a bit unfair, in terms of Purpose built capitals, DC is much more relevant as a city (rather than purely a seat of Government) that Ottawa, Canberra, or Brazilia
Seattle - Wanted so badly to love this city. I had a romance in my head due to the city's past with music, counterculture, movies/media, etc. But downtown Seattle was disgusting. Complete lawlessness. Junkies were, no exaggeration, in the middle of the street shooting heroin. Junkie zombies were shuffling around all over. There were bodies sprawled out over the sidewalk either dead or passed out. The massive tent encampment around Pioneer Square was insane. I'd say Seattle misses the mark alright. Lots of potential with its history, natural beauty, and economy but just yikes.
Portland - See Seattle.
Charlotte - A city with ~900k people and the skyline of a city 2X that. And yet, downtown on the street level is SO sterile and so bland and so boring. There are 0 quaint, historic districts. There are 0 architecturally interesting buildings. That was all torn down to make way for faceless bank towers, luxury condos or apartments and parking decks. Surprising lack of street level retail. This opinion is based on my last visit to Charlotte in November 2019, so just before the pandemic. I have another visit planned for late summer.
Seattle - Wanted so badly to love this city. I had a romance in my head due to the city's past with music, counterculture, movies/media, etc. But downtown Seattle was disgusting. Complete lawlessness. Junkies were, no exaggeration, in the middle of the street shooting heroin. Junkie zombies were shuffling around all over. There were bodies sprawled out over the sidewalk either dead or passed out. The massive tent encampment around Pioneer Square was insane. I'd say Seattle misses the mark alright. Lots of potential with its history, natural beauty, and economy but just yikes.
Those encampments are gone at Pioneer Sq now. Seattle is also most vibrant in the neighborhood nodes like Old Ballard, UDistrict, Fremont, Broadway, not in downtown which consisted of the CBD and various tourist traps. With Covid and still slow return to work to the CBD, most downtowns in the US outside of Manhattan and Chicago don't look so hot right now. But I would say Seattle's downtown this month looked way better than it has in at least 2 years.
Charlotte - A city with ~900k people and the skyline of a city 2X that. And yet, downtown on the street level is SO sterile and so bland and so boring. There are 0 quaint, historic districts. There are 0 architecturally interesting buildings. That was all torn down to make way for faceless bank towers, luxury condos or apartments and parking decks. Surprising lack of street level retail. This opinion is based on my last visit to Charlotte in November 2019, so just before the pandemic. I have another visit planned for late summer.
Just flew back from Charlotte two days ago. It hasn't changed much in those respects since 2019, unfortunately.
DC is much more relevant as a city (rather than purely a seat of Government) that Ottawa, Canberra, or Brazilia
Are we really doing this "DC vs Canberra" again?
The US government is a much larger, much more globally important entity than the governments of Canada, Australia, or Brazil, just as the US itself is much more globally important. The US federal government has a budget 9X larger than Canada's federal government.
Yes, a lot of the private industries around DC do in some sense cater to the federal government, but they still have a tremendous economic impact. For instance, the Government Employees' Insurance Company started as a service to federal employees and is headquartered on the DC-MD border. But does that mean the 40,000 employees of GEICO, America's second-largest car insurance company, have zero weight in the economy because "that's all just federal"?
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