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What is the percentage threshold for a high foreign born population ? You have places in DC like Brightwood that are about 40-50% foreign born or petworth that is 25% foreign born or Mount Pleasant that’s about 25-30% foreign born. So DC does have many areas of ethnic and racial diversity. Obviously not to scale of places like NYC, LA, Chicago, Boston but I’d consider DC relatively diverse.
EDIT: because you brought up north jersey, I’ll reiterate that it’s hard to measure exposure or cosmopolitanism of an area. NJ is quite segregated by town and it’s entirely possibly that you don’t interact with the ethnic group from the other town or school. So it begs the question, just how cosmopolitan are some of these places?
Second EDIT: aside from size and maybe educational attainment rates, I really don’t think DC and Boston are similar cities at all.
High level is for me like 23% and up. like 1.5x the national rate. A place being "Full of immigrants" gotta be over 35% if not 40%. Totally subjective.
Integration, Diversity, and Cosmopolitan are all different things that aren't the same -they're related- but not the same.
NYC is diverse and cosmopolitan not very integrated. Then you have places like Anchorage that are integrated but not very diverse or cosmopolitan. And then you have places like San Jose that are pretty cosmopolitan but not very diverse. Or places like Atlanta and DC are diverse but not very cosmopolitan.
DC and Boston seem pretty similar to me, the biggest difference being DC is a black-oriented and grided city, while Boston is a more white-oriented and ungridded city. If you can move beyond that, pretty similar... but DC is slightly larger, wealthier and better educated. But I don't think most people feel that's a big deal.
The defensiveness isn't really necessary... Im in DC with some degree of regularity even with people from DC and Maryland. As in numerous times within the last month... and had many friends there who lived 1 mile from the border. On a city level it's not on the Boston tier of international diversity, and probably more on a Chicago plain. On a Metro level, it surpasses Boston.
High level is for me like 23% and up. like 1.5x the national rate. A place being "Full of immigrants" gotta be over 35% if not 40%. Totally subjective.
Integration, Diversity, and Cosmopolitan are all different things that aren't the same -they're related- but not the same.
NYC is diverse and cosmopolitan not very integrated. Then you have places like Anchorage that are integrated but not very diverse or cosmopolitan. And then you have places like San Jose that are pretty cosmopolitan but not very diverse. Or places like Atlanta and DC are diverse but not very cosmopolitan.
DC and Boston seem pretty similar to me, the biggest difference being DC is a black-oriented and grided city, while Boston is a more white-oriented and ungridded city. If you can move beyond that, pretty similar... but DC is slightly larger, wealthier and better educated. But I don't think most people feel that's a big deal.
The defensiveness isn't really necessary... Im in DC with some degree of regularity even with people from DC and Maryland. As in numerous times within the last month... and had many friends there who lived 1 mile from the border. On a city level it's not on the Boston tier of international diversity, and probably more on a Chicago plain. On a Metro level, it surpasses Boston.
Hmm, I think only neighborhoods like mount pleasant Brightwood and Brightwood park are 25% or more foreign born (this percentage is decreasing in Mount pleasant) but DC has quite a few neighborhoods in the 15-25% foreign born range. And then including American born racial diversity and second gen there a number of diverse neighborhoods in DC proper. The suburbs completely wash DC though.
I’m Not sure I get the distinction between diverse and cosmopolitan then.
I’ve never lived in Boston but have visited and I live in DC (I live uptown off Georgia Ave NW where most of DC’s diverse/immigrant heavy areas are now) and I really didn’t don’t see many similarities. Historically and culturally very different cities.
Diversity can be strictly racial diversity but everyone is very much American White or Black, or Mexican-American which at this point I don’t really consider all that worldly. Pretty mainstreamed, way bigger than any other immigrant group and been here in the US for hundred of years….
Cosmopolitan is more related to immigration, worldliness and ethnicity. Going by the definition of the word. The more well represented various countries form various continents the more cosmopolitan.
Agree to disagree about DC and Boston. They’re both polished gentrified smallish major cities of fairly similar levels importance. one thing for lame is DC is the #1 outbound destination form the Boston MSA. We find it an easy adjustment to DC and MD.
But yea I’d be lying if I said I didn’t notice DC was generally more orderly and more vibrant at night and blacker. Boston generally more jumbled and chaotic, more vibrant during the day, and more cosmopolitan in its population. Boston is also more siloed by neighborhood.
Where you live feels more like Cambridge or Malden than anywhere in Boston itself actually. And I believe you said your family was from Mattapan. So I can see where you are coming from.
But areas like Jamaica Plain, South End or even Roxbury or Roslindale have more of that DC feel.
There kind of three tiers in Boston Northern Boston (Downtown, Beacon Hill, Charlestown South Boston, Allston-Brighton maybe the South End) which is mostly downtown and tourist areas, very small neighborhoods mostly childless and pretty homogenous, mid Boston (Roxbury, Jamaica Plain, Dorchester, maybe South End) which is gentrifying and high density residential, very diverse and Southern Boston (West Roxbury Hyde Park Mattapan and Roslindale) which is more residential, diversifying the most and lower density.
High level is for me like 23% and up. like 1.5x the national rate. A place being "Full of immigrants" gotta be over 35% if not 40%. Totally subjective.
Integration, Diversity, and Cosmopolitan are all different things that aren't the same -they're related- but not the same.
NYC is diverse and cosmopolitan not very integrated. Then you have places like Anchorage that are integrated but not very diverse or cosmopolitan. And then you have places like San Jose that are pretty cosmopolitan but not very diverse. Or places like Atlanta and DC are diverse but not very cosmopolitan.
DC and Boston seem pretty similar to me, the biggest difference being DC is a black-oriented and grided city, while Boston is a more white-oriented and ungridded city. If you can move beyond that, pretty similar... but DC is slightly larger, wealthier and better educated. But I don't think most people feel that's a big deal.
The defensiveness isn't really necessary... Im in DC with some degree of regularity even with people from DC and Maryland. As in numerous times within the last month... and had many friends there who lived 1 mile from the border. On a city level it's not on the Boston tier of international diversity, and probably more on a Chicago plain. On a Metro level, it surpasses Boston.
>> Or places like Atlanta and DC are diverse but not very cosmopolitan.
Curious to understand how the city with one of the world's largest airports (with plenty of int'l flights and home of Coca-Cola, CNN, '96 Olympics) and the national capital of the world's foremost superpower (plenty of foreign embassies and geopolitical think-tanks in DC) are not very cosmopolitan? There is definitely cosmopolitanism in the ATL and DC metros, respectively.
Last edited by norcal2k19; 03-12-2023 at 09:35 AM..
Regarding immigration, Atlanta was the #12 metro for lawful permanent residents in 2021, though it's often been a little higher in prior years. That's certainly a counterpoint.
DC was #4. But really it was back with the pack, far behind #3 Miami.
>> Or places like Atlanta and DC are diverse but not very cosmopolitan.
Curious to understand how the city with one of the world's largest airports (with plenty of int'l flights and home of Coca-Cola, CNN, '96 Olympics) and the national capital of the world's foremost superpower (plenty of foreign embassies and geopolitical think-tanks in DC) are not very cosmopolitan? There is definitely cosmopolitanism in the ATL and DC metros, respectively.
My good sir. 91.5% of Atlanta population was born in the United States. That’s damn near nationalist.
Simply look at the stats not the 96 Olympics and corporate headquarters you’ll understand. Just because a flight connects in Atlanta does not mean the people live in Atlanta.
There is cosmopolitanism there but not as much as more coastal cities. They lack chain migration for one. They have the same selective high end immigration as a place like Boston or San Francisco but without the lower socioeconomic chain migration. Most of this is attributable to their legacy as domestic cities.
In Atlanta like DC/ you’ll find more cosmo areas in the suburbs not the city.
And Atlanta is not anywhere near DC city proper or metro wise. Not anywhere near it.
My good sir. 91.5% of Atlanta population was born in the United States. That’s damn near nationalist.
Simply look at the stats not the 96 Olympics and corporate headquarters you’ll understand. Just because a flight connects in Atlanta does not mean the people live in Atlanta.
There is cosmopolitanism there but not as much as more coastal cities. They lack chain migration for one. They have the same selective high end immigration as a place like Boston or San Francisco but without the lower socioeconomic chain migration. Most of this is attributable to their legacy as domestic cities.
In Atlanta like DC/ you’ll find more cosmo areas in the suburbs not the city.
And Atlanta is not anywhere near DC city proper or metro wise. Not anywhere near it.
We must have different definitions of what it means to be cosmopolitan (a perennial debate here on CD of course) - and it's more than just flight connections given that a major airline is actually HQ'ed in the city. I definitely wouldn't describe Atlanta as "nationalist." It's a global and cosmopolitan city.
We must have different definitions of what it means to be cosmopolitan (a perennial debate here on CD of course) - and it's more than just flight connections given that a major airline is actually HQ'ed in the city. I definitely wouldn't describe Atlanta as "nationalist." It's a global and cosmopolitan city.
adjective 1.
including or containing people from many different countries.
When 91.5% of your population is from the same country that is virtually impossible.
This is a demography thread. Atlanta- objectively- does not have cosmopolitan demographics.
Merriam Webster:
1
: having wide international sophistication : WORLDLY
Greater cultural diversity has led to a more cosmopolitan attitude among the town's younger generations. 2
: composed of persons, constituents, or elements from all or many parts of the world
a city with a cosmopolitan population
1st definition is subjective. But not really relevant to a demography thread. 2nd definition precludes Atlanta.
Collins Dictionary for something more obscure:
cosmopolitan
in American English
(ˌkɑzməˈpɑlətən)
ADJECTIVE 1. common to or representative of all or many parts of the world; not national or local
2. not bound by local or national habits or prejudices; at home in all countries or places
3. characterized by worldly sophistication; fashionable, urbane, etc.
1st definition, again, precludes Atlanta. CNN is not Atlanta, Coke is not Atlanta. Coke, first of all, is the ultimate symbol of America besides Mcdonald, but it's also a "corporate citizen" in Atlanta. Not Atlanta nor its populace.
Ignoring the 2nd definition you could go to the third definition and find room for Atlanta. It's fashionable, urbane is debatable.
Last edited by BostonBornMassMade; 03-12-2023 at 03:46 PM..
Diversity can be strictly racial diversity but everyone is very much American White or Black, or Mexican-American which at this point I don’t really consider all that worldly. Pretty mainstreamed, way bigger than any other immigrant group and been here in the US for hundred of years….
Cosmopolitan is more related to immigration, worldliness and ethnicity. Going by the definition of the word. The more well represented various countries form various continents the more cosmopolitan.
Agree to disagree about DC and Boston. They’re both polished gentrified smallish major cities of fairly similar levels importance. one thing for lame is DC is the #1 outbound destination form the Boston MSA. We find it an easy adjustment to DC and MD.
But yea I’d be lying if I said I didn’t notice DC was generally more orderly and more vibrant at night and blacker. Boston generally more jumbled and chaotic, more vibrant during the day, and more cosmopolitan in its population. Boston is also more siloed by neighborhood.
Where you live feels more like Cambridge or Malden than anywhere in Boston itself actually. And I believe you said your family was from Mattapan. So I can see where you are coming from.
But areas like Jamaica Plain, South End or even Roxbury or Roslindale have more of that DC feel.
There kind of three tiers in Boston Northern Boston (Downtown, Beacon Hill, Charlestown South Boston, Allston-Brighton maybe the South End) which is mostly downtown and tourist areas, very small neighborhoods mostly childless and pretty homogenous, mid Boston (Roxbury, Jamaica Plain, Dorchester, maybe South End) which is gentrifying and high density residential, very diverse and Southern Boston (West Roxbury Hyde Park Mattapan and Roslindale) which is more residential, diversifying the most and lower density.
I see. I'd consider my neighborhood (Petworth/Brightwood area) one of the few cosmopolitan areas of DC proper, with AA, Jamaican, Salvadoran and other Central Americans, Guatemalan, Mexican, Ethiopians, and Dominicans being the biggest groups in my neighborhood. Biggest groups are by far AA, white Americans, then Salvadoran and surprisingly high amount of Dominicans, Jamaicans, and Ethiopians.
Yeah, my family in Boston (Haitians) live in Mattapan and some other town that starts with an M (Milton? Malden? not sure).
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