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I would say in terms of economy, the Albany area has the mix of government, Ed’s and meds, manufacturing and tech related employment in the area. It also has the highest average annual pay according to Bureau of Labor Statistics information in terms of the bigger Upstate areas at $61,560(May 2021). Ithaca has the highest overall and second highest in the state at $66,230 from the same source: https://www.bls.gov/oes/current/oes_27060.htm#00-0000
Both are a bit higher in cost of living, more so Ithaca than Albany.
Syracuse is third in terms of Average Annual Pay at $57,990.
I would say in terms of economy, the Albany area has the mix of government, Ed’s and meds, manufacturing and tech related employment in the area. It also has the highest average annual pay according to Bureau of Labor Statistics information in terms of the bigger Upstate areas at $61,560(May 2021). Ithaca has the highest overall and second highest in the state at $66,230 from the same source: https://www.bls.gov/oes/current/oes_27060.htm#00-0000
Both are a bit higher in cost of living, more so Ithaca than Albany.
Syracuse is third in terms of Average Annual Pay at $57,990.
I think what I find odd about Albany is that its train station is across the river and in a sea of parking which sort of doesn't make as good a use of its great frequency and speed which is pretty good or a US rail station.
I think a station in Albany proper here on this part of the straight away near multiple bus stations with the current service makes sense: https://goo.gl/maps/n6RGyj27J18euahQ6
Ultimately, it'd be great to have a service that goes all the way up and down the western / right bank of the river again and for the Capital Area to have a sort of regional rail / S-Bahn sort of system with it.
I think what I find odd about Albany is that its train station is across the river and in a sea of parking which sort of doesn't make as good a use of its great frequency and speed which is pretty good or a US rail station.
I think a station in Albany proper here on this part of the straight away near multiple bus stations with the current service makes sense: https://goo.gl/maps/n6RGyj27J18euahQ6
Ultimately, it'd be great to have a service that goes all the way up and down the western / right bank of the river again and for the Capital Area to have a sort of regional rail / S-Bahn sort of system with it.
It was cool to see Portnoy tour the Syracuse and Utica pizza scenes. He also visited Buffalo a few years ago and sampled some WNY-style pies. The most interesting was his visit to La Nova, which... well just google it.
Still no pizza reviews in Rochester yet. Hopefully those come sooner or later. There are some worthy spots.
I have a fondness for Upstate NY as I was born there in the Rochester area and most of my extended family is still in the area. Was just up there last month for a cousins wedding and spent time in some of the areas I was less familiar with. Wedding was off Park Ave and my cousin (the groom) had just bought a house near downtown Fairport to where we were able to walk there for a night out "bachelor party".
Was surprised by the more energetic young-professional atmosphere in both...having generally associated the area as "educated yet parochial"....mostly families who had been there for generations with little interest/experience elsewhere. Met a lot of people at the wedding who lived in Rochester but did not grow up there...a surprisingly more diverse crowd than I had previously experienced. There is what feels to be a recently-fostered hip and youthful element.
Anecdotally, Rochester does seem to be attracting a sizable number of new transplants. My family and friends living there have reported new neighbors from various parts of the country. I know the North Winton neighborhood’s real estate market was/is red hot. Downtown is also adding massive numbers of residential units. The “Neighborhood of Play” development adjacent to the Museum of Play and Inner Loop infill looks incredible. I drove by there a few months ago and was taken aback by seeing blocks and blocks of brand new urban buildings. That’s just something you’d never see in Rochester.
Another project that could transform the city is the planned High Falls State Park, which would bring new bridges, a zip line and elevator down the gorge to the base of the waterfall. Big city stuff.
Also promising is that Constellation Brands has committed to relocating their headquarters downtown next year, which will be the first Fortune 500 company to be based in Rochester since Kodak got kicked off the list a decade or so ago. It feels like things are truly beginning to improve.
The only discouraging thing is that the data does not yet support a Rochester resurgence. GDP still hasn’t recovered to pre-pandemic levels. The 2020 Census did not show very promising figures either. Technically Rochester city proper grew but by just a few hundred people and the MSA screeched to a halt with the slowest growth rate in 40 years. Perhaps the count was inaccurate. The 2030 numbers will be interesting, I do believe the Great Lakes cities are poised for a comeback. Worst of all, the crime rate is atrocious and the homicide rate on pace to hit record highs again this year. So depressing.
It is worth noting is that Buffalo’s metro took off like a rocket, actually reversing a 50 year trend of constant uninterrupted population loss. Buffalo is becoming a fairly trendy city among the young professional crowd. It’s wonderful to witness that particular transformation.
Yea, I think it makes a lot of sense for their to be a train service that goes all the way up from NYC at least to at least Albany on the western bank of the Hudson. The point I located at the map would be good for a rapid deployment of an Albany station that's within the city and can also be the nearest transfer point for the lines on the western and eastern sides of the river.
Quote:
Originally Posted by jpdivola
Yeah, that's true. But, the vast majority of Pittsburghs population is centered in one core urban area, while Buffalo and Rochesters combined MSA population is split across two urban areas that are 60 miles apart. It's technically possible to commute from one city to the other, but it's getting into the super commuter category. The southern Ontario spit is unique. Geographically it's contiguous, but you have to cross an international boarder.
Yea, it'd be in the super commuter category. I do think there should be a train line that has service hours that are well within normal commuting times in both directions for Buffalo and Rochester, and even better if it extended out to at least Syracuse and there was pre-clearance for extending out to at least Toronto. Then it can be something like the Horseshoe line for the Golden Horseshoe around the western half of Lake Ontario. I think it'd also be neat if there was an at least Buffalo to North Country train service that veered north after Schenectady. The train eastbound after Amsterdam can switch at Rotterdam Junction in order to go on tracks that enter heading north when going into Schenectady station and use the same stations from then on that the Adirondack and Ethan Allen Express services use.
It's too bad that the Inner Loop freeway got built and helped push Rochester Institute of Technology to move to a suburban campus as having both the University of Rochester and RIT *both* remain in the city could have been a massive help in keeping Rochester bustling even with all the corporate exits of the latter 20th century.
What's your overall favorite city in upstate/western New York. Based on downtown, natural surroundings, architecture, economy etc. I haven't seen upstate NY mentioned on here in a long time.
As someone who has always loved Upstate NY I am immensely grateful for this thread and am enjoying everyone's contributions. Thank you.
In my lifetime I have visited and/or spent a considerable amount of time in Binghamton, Syracuse, Rochester, Buffalo, Corning, Auburn, Geneva, Elmira, Ithaca, and Dunkirk/Fredonia in terms of the more major population centers.
I hope to visit Jamestown soon.
I know very little about Watertown, Utica, Rome, the Capital District, Plattsburgh, Kingston, or Newburgh and have never been to any of these cities. Reading about Albany and Troy has made me curious to do some Google Street View cyber-tourism tonight, though, before bed.
Ithaca was decent when we vacationed there in June 2020. The pandemic was still new, and people were a bit aloof/standoffish as a result. The Downtown pedestrian mall was dead. I liked the built environment and natural surroundings of the area, though.
I found Dunkirk and Fredonia to be depressing---you could tell they had not (yet anyways) hit their strides in terms of revitalization/revival. Same with Elmira, although I have seen some recent news about some projects Downtown there that should hopefully kickstart things.
I really like Syracuse, Rochester, and Buffalo. It does seem like Rochester has a violent crime issue, but I am guessing it mostly avoids the coveted South Wedge/East Avenue parts of Rochester. Buffalo's Downtown underwhelms me (although I do love the architecture). Allentown and Elmwood Village? Fantastic neighborhoods. Canalside? I guess I don't get why it is so hyped up because I wasn't impressed by it.
Binghamton, like my native Scranton/Wilkes-Barre, continues to languish socioeconomically.
We are going to Corning, Elmira, and Watkins Glen for my birthday in a few weeks, and I will report back with updates on these communities.
As someone who has always loved Upstate NY I am immensely grateful for this thread and am enjoying everyone's contributions. Thank you.
In my lifetime I have visited and/or spent a considerable amount of time in Binghamton, Syracuse, Rochester, Buffalo, Corning, Auburn, Geneva, Elmira, Ithaca, and Dunkirk/Fredonia in terms of the more major population centers.
I hope to visit Jamestown soon.
I know very little about Watertown, Utica, Rome, the Capital District, Plattsburgh, Kingston, or Newburgh and have never been to any of these cities. Reading about Albany and Troy has made me curious to do some Google Street View cyber-tourism tonight, though, before bed.
Ithaca was decent when we vacationed there in June 2020. The pandemic was still new, and people were a bit aloof/standoffish as a result. The Downtown pedestrian mall was dead. I liked the built environment and natural surroundings of the area, though.
I found Dunkirk and Fredonia to be depressing---you could tell they had not (yet anyways) hit their strides in terms of revitalization/revival. Same with Elmira, although I have seen some recent news about some projects Downtown there that should hopefully kickstart things.
I really like Syracuse, Rochester, and Buffalo. It does seem like Rochester has a violent crime issue, but I am guessing it mostly avoids the coveted South Wedge/East Avenue parts of Rochester. Buffalo's Downtown underwhelms me (although I do love the architecture). Allentown and Elmwood Village? Fantastic neighborhoods. Canalside? I guess I don't get why it is so hyped up because I wasn't impressed by it.
Binghamton, like my native Scranton/Wilkes-Barre, continues to languish socioeconomically.
We are going to Corning, Elmira, and Watkins Glen for my birthday in a few weeks, and I will report back with updates on these communities.
Check out Lake Placid and Saranac Lake as well if you go to the Adirondacks. I haven't run out of trails to explore yet in that region.
^If you want the Adirondacks with more of a down to earth feel, Old Forge about 50-55 minutes or so north of Utica(and an hour and 45 minutes from Syracuse) in the western portion of the park is a solid little community: https://www.oldforgeny.com/
Last edited by ckhthankgod; 09-27-2022 at 11:52 AM..
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