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Old 01-22-2023, 09:14 AM
 
Location: Baltimore
21,637 posts, read 12,793,003 times
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Why ‘how downtown Boston is recovering’ depends on which downtown you’re talking about
Back Bay, the Seaport, and the Financial District are taking divergent tracks as the pandemic eases, depending largely on how reliant they are on office workers: https://www.bostonglobe.com/2023/01/...talking-about/

The numbers are stark: As of last spring, restaurant spending in the Financial District was down 19 percent from 2019. It was up 4 percent in Back Bay and 8 percent in the Seaport. Meanwhile, retail sales plummeted 27 percent in the Financial District over that same period, while Back Bay and the Seaport saw increases of 12 percent and a staggering 78 percent respectively, according to in-person spending data tracked by Mastercard and released by the city last fall. (Of course, the Seaport has seen a boom in new retail period. It’s added over 30 new stores since the start of the pandemic.)
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Old 01-22-2023, 09:53 AM
 
Location: Washington D.C.
13,728 posts, read 15,768,537 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by BostonBornMassMade View Post
Why ‘how downtown Boston is recovering’ depends on which downtown you’re talking about
Back Bay, the Seaport, and the Financial District are taking divergent tracks as the pandemic eases, depending largely on how reliant they are on office workers: https://www.bostonglobe.com/2023/01/...talking-about/

The numbers are stark: As of last spring, restaurant spending in the Financial District was down 19 percent from 2019. It was up 4 percent in Back Bay and 8 percent in the Seaport. Meanwhile, retail sales plummeted 27 percent in the Financial District over that same period, while Back Bay and the Seaport saw increases of 12 percent and a staggering 78 percent respectively, according to in-person spending data tracked by Mastercard and released by the city last fall. (Of course, the Seaport has seen a boom in new retail period. It’s added over 30 new stores since the start of the pandemic.)
This seems to be the case everywhere. It’s why it’s so important to build mixed use downtown areas. The same dynamic exists in DC with NOMA, Union Market, Mt. Vernon Triangle, Navy Yard, Foggy Bottom, and the Wharf thriving while the older office centric parts of downtown DC struggle like Midtown, Golden Triangle, and the East End.

The opportunity to transform these office centric areas around America into mixed use centers is enormous.

Last edited by MDAllstar; 01-22-2023 at 10:09 AM..
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Old 01-22-2023, 11:32 AM
 
Location: Germantown, Philadelphia
14,186 posts, read 9,080,000 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by MDAllstar View Post
This seems to be the case everywhere. It’s why it’s so important to build mixed use downtown areas. The same dynamic exists in DC with NOMA, Union Market, Mt. Vernon Triangle, Navy Yard, Foggy Bottom, and the Wharf thriving while the older office centric parts of downtown DC struggle like Midtown, Golden Triangle, and the East End.

The opportunity to transform these office centric areas around America into mixed use centers is enormous.
Philadelphia's ace in the hole is that it has one of those mixed-use downtowns already and has had one for decades. The Center City District woke it up in the 1980s and the city haasn't looked back since.

Both office-to-residential conversions and the addition of apartment towers to the West Market Street office canyon (which is flanked on its north by heavily residential John F. Kennedy Boulevard) only reinforce things here.
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Old 01-22-2023, 01:09 PM
 
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I'm guessing a booming city like Austin or Nashville which boost growing tourist sectors and rapid mixed use infill are probably well ahead of where they were prepandemic.

Among the most established cities, Boston really seems to be doing well. It helps that the broader downtown area was heavily mixed use, with a large tourism sector and is regional shopping/entertainment destination. Downtown crossing, which has been struggling for a while, is the only area that looks to not be stronger than 5 years ago. Back Bay, Quicy Market, Beacon Hill, Theater District, Mass Ave, Chinatown, North End, Fenway all seem basically recovered. North Station and Seaport are ahead of the game. The office heavy part of the Financial District is probably hurting. But it was always 95. Plus, it's pretty tiny, so it's easy to get back to vibrant areas. The narrow streets and hyper dense concentrations of office workers still make it feel busy at rush hour even if it maybe down from prepandemic.

Qualitatively, Boston has a very polished urban core. You don't really see the tents, open drug markets to the same degree as other cities I have been too.
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Old 01-22-2023, 01:14 PM
 
Location: Baltimore
21,637 posts, read 12,793,003 times
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Originally Posted by jpdivola View Post
I'm guessing a booming city like Austin or Nashville which boost growing tourist sectors and rapid mixed use infill are probably well ahead of where they were prepandemic.

Among the most established cities, Boston really seems to be doing well. It helps that the downtown area was heavily mixed use, with a large tourism and regional shopping/entertainment destination. Downtown crossing, which has been struggling for a while, is the only area that looks to not be stronger than 5 years ago. Back Bay, Quicy Market, Beacon Hill, Theater District, Mass Ave, Chinatown, North End, Fenway all seem basically recovered. North Station and Seaport are ahead of the game. The office heavy part of the Financial District is probably hurting. But it was always 95. Plus, it's pretty tiny, so it's easy to get back to vibrant areas. The narrow streets and hyper dense concentrations of office workers still make it feel busy at rush hour even if it maybe down from prepandemic.

Qualitatively, Boston has a very polished urban core. You don't really see the tents, open drug markets to the same degree as other cities I have been too.
Bostons traditional downtown has a 30 year high vacancy rate ( https://www.bostonglobe.com/2023/01/...et-is-hurting/ ), and is down 33% in foot traffic- under no metric is it’s “traditional downtown” doing well. It’s also battling with strong perceptions of crime.

The tents and open drug markets are confined to Mass and Cass. Albeit some I’d the downtown is an open drug market (Chinatown off Tremont Street, parts of the common, right off common near downtown crossing but it can depend on the hour of day)

I would say Philly and New York seem ahead of Boston. Baltimore is worse and maybe DC is worse too or the same. But Boston of the east coast cities is definitely not doing the best. If you include Back Bay and Seaport overall retail is up 4% from pre pandemic but foot traffic is still down over 10% in all areas.

Greater downtown is back to full swing but the core is not and is generally still in decline with state offices and other employers poised and prepared to vacate more space in that area in the next few months.

Last edited by BostonBornMassMade; 01-22-2023 at 01:28 PM..
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Old 01-22-2023, 01:29 PM
 
14,023 posts, read 15,032,674 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by MDAllstar View Post
This seems to be the case everywhere. It’s why it’s so important to build mixed use downtown areas. The same dynamic exists in DC with NOMA, Union Market, Mt. Vernon Triangle, Navy Yard, Foggy Bottom, and the Wharf thriving while the older office centric parts of downtown DC struggle like Midtown, Golden Triangle, and the East End.

The opportunity to transform these office centric areas around America into mixed use centers is enormous.
Good to not the Financial district in Boston is like 0.3sq miles or something. It’s really a few blocks in each direction. Boston has a very small area that people call Downtown
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Old 01-22-2023, 01:44 PM
 
Location: Baltimore
21,637 posts, read 12,793,003 times
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Originally Posted by btownboss4 View Post
Good to not the Financial district in Boston is like 0.3sq miles or something. It’s really a few blocks in each direction. Boston has a very small area that people call Downtown
I think it’s strange that they didn’t discuss “Downtown Crossing” as downtown.

It’s the only neighborhood in all of Boston that has “Downtown” in its name.

And fundamentally I’d say the area people call downtown can range from Tiny to expansive as the article suggests people (count jpdivola as one) call everything from Mass Ave to Seaport “Downtown” because there is no official downtown.

Technically speaking I think most people call the Financial District “the Financial a district” or even “FiDi” when people say downtown I think they’re referring to ‘greater downtown’ (when discussing its mixed use nature and rebound) or “Downtown Crossing” (when discussing the woes of downtown).

As someone growing up in the city in the 2000s/ 2010s Downtown included:

Beacon Hill
Back Bay
Bay Village
Chinatown
Theatre District
West End
Government Center
Financial District
Leather District
Downtown Crossing
North End

and eventually Seaport.

All of that is/was ‘Downtown’

Last edited by BostonBornMassMade; 01-22-2023 at 02:37 PM..
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Old 01-22-2023, 02:30 PM
 
Location: Washington D.C.
13,728 posts, read 15,768,537 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by MarketStEl View Post
Philadelphia's ace in the hole is that it has one of those mixed-use downtowns already and has had one for decades. The Center City District woke it up in the 1980s and the city haasn't looked back since.

Both office-to-residential conversions and the addition of apartment towers to the West Market Street office canyon (which is flanked on its north by heavily residential John F. Kennedy Boulevard) only reinforce things here.
Agreed!
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Old 01-22-2023, 03:52 PM
 
211 posts, read 120,484 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Duderino View Post
The "middle ground" approach seems to be the most common at the moment. But other than what now seems to be seasonal COVID concerns, there's obviously a lot of big decision-making paralysis going on.

You touched on the fact that employers are trying to see what other companies are doing before making more permanent moves, which I'm sure is very true. There are also confounding factors, such as a very tight labor market and a global economy that is extremely unpredictable at the moment--to say the least. These aspects are also driving uncertainty and indecision among the top brass at most companies.

The future of the office and the "workplace" is going to be one of the analyzed topics this decade, and I think it's going to take at least a couple more years to get to a baseline for what a "workplace" will look like for the rest of the 21st Century. And one thing is for sure--all cities have a major stake in making sure people still see the value in in-person interaction, because that value is critical to every city's existence.

I have a feeling the "loneliness" epidemic will soon peak, too, which will drive the pendulum back towards a desire for much more meaningful in-person interaction. A long we are a human society, we will have a fundamental need for camaraderie and belonging. These are dynamics of socialization that can never be replaced by a screen.
Thing is despite any loneliness, the work place, especially today, is a crap place to interact with people and make friends. Yeah it can be done, but every passing year it becomes more hostile to doing so.
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Old 01-22-2023, 04:52 PM
 
Location: Charleston, South Carolina
12,924 posts, read 18,770,297 times
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Charleston

In fact, it has recovered and is moving forward.
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