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OP, have you looked at Cleveland? It's surprisingly transit-oriented with heavy rail, trolleys and bus rapid transit as well as the usual bus services. Check out neighborhoods like Coventry Village, Shaker Square, Cleveland Heights and University Circle on the East Side, around Downtown places like Ohio City, Detroit Shoreway and Lakefront as well as the West Side in places like Lakewood, Cudell and Edgewater. The affordability factor is difficult to overlook and its amenities somewhat surprising if unfamiliar.
I think it comes down to what criteria hold more weight for you between Pittsburgh and Philly. I would scratch St. Louis in the decision making process since Pittsburgh is closer to home and provides a similar option.
In thinking about weighted criteria, i think Pittsburgh wins out on safety, proximity to home and affordability.
I think Philly wins out on gay population, location to other cities and weather. I've heard food is better too but i'm sure you can find solid food in Pittsburgh too.
I spent a week in Manayunk (Philly) last summer and never felt unsafe though crime is a real concern in Philly. Manayunk is pretty tucked away so i think that helps.
OP, have you looked at Cleveland? It's surprisingly transit-oriented with heavy rail, trolleys and bus rapid transit as well as the usual bus services. Check out neighborhoods like Coventry Village, Shaker Square, Cleveland Heights and University Circle on the East Side, around Downtown places like Ohio City, Detroit Shoreway and Lakefront as well as the West Side in places like Lakewood, Cudell and Edgewater. The affordability factor is difficult to overlook and its amenities somewhat surprising if unfamiliar.
Yea, I was thinking that, too. If St. Louis is in contention, then I think it makes sense for Cleveland to also be considered.
I think Philadelphia is easily the strongest city on the list, but I think the OP is right about the potential for cost of living increases as I think there's a fairly bright future for Philadelphia but one that would likely entail a growing population and higher costs. That being said, there's also potential for the OP to grow along with the city in terms of career prospects or getting in early.
What is your opinion of St. Louis? Is it worth the consideration or do you think it wouldn't really meet my criteria? I have looked at areas in the CWE, Debaliviere, and downtown. Lafayette Square and Soulard look interesting. I definitely plan to take a trip out there and visit for a few days.
I live in St Louis and love it.
Given your criteria and your post, I would choose Philadelphia. Philadelphia is a wonderful city. If I wasn't at my stage in life I would choose it for myself.
St Louis is worth taking a look at before making your final decision. The biggest pro with St. Louis is you will be getting a lot of city for your money. It's not on the level as Philadelphia but it is nice for its size and costs.
Again, only because I know Pittsburgh the best. I know that Philadelphia hits most of my wants, but I do question the affordability. Though Philadelphia is a great deal for its location.
Yeah, Philly is clearly in a class above the others. It's definitely the biggest, and really a top 5 urban city. Great location with proximity to the ocean, mountains, NYC, DC, etc. It's probably the most expensive, but a bargain compared to other costal cities.
Pittsburgh's a really cool, unique American city. Not really a major city anymore, but great architecture, neighborhoods, interesting topography.
I can't really comment on STL. My sense is it is underrated and has some great bones, but also some real issues with crime and disinvestment. Idk, but I get the sense the city suburb/state tensions are greater in STL than Pittsburgh. I would also think Pittsburgh has a more scenic location with the mountains of PA,WV right nearby.
Again, only because I know Pittsburgh the best. I know that Philadelphia hits most of my wants, but I do question the affordability. Though Philadelphia is a great deal for its location.
Pittsburgh is my favorite, but objectively there is no way it beats Philadelphia's offerings. I think what stands out for Pittsburgh is its affordability and outdoor activities.
OP, have you looked at Cleveland? It's surprisingly transit-oriented with heavy rail, trolleys and bus rapid transit as well as the usual bus services. Check out neighborhoods like Coventry Village, Shaker Square, Cleveland Heights and University Circle on the East Side, around Downtown places like Ohio City, Detroit Shoreway and Lakefront as well as the West Side in places like Lakewood, Cudell and Edgewater. The affordability factor is difficult to overlook and its amenities somewhat surprising if unfamiliar.
Yes, I actually lived in Cleveland during undergrad. I agree, it is very underrated. It does have the mass transit, access to nature, and a robust land bank program. I have an affinity for Pennsylvania so that is why Pittsburgh and Philadelphia are at the top of my list. Great suggestion though.
Quote:
Originally Posted by OyCrumbler
Yea, I was thinking that, too. If St. Louis is in contention, then I think it makes sense for Cleveland to also be considered.
I think Philadelphia is easily the strongest city on the list, but I think the OP is right about the potential for cost of living increases as I think there's a fairly bright future for Philadelphia but one that would likely entail a growing population and higher costs. That being said, there's also potential for the OP to grow along with the city in terms of career prospects or getting in early.
Not having been to St. Louis it seems like it is very similar to Cleveland with respect to being underrated and overlooked for the assets that it does have. The architectural density in certain neighborhoods is what has caught my attention.
I agree about trying to get to Philadelphia sooner rather than later while it is a bargain, and I also have thought if I can establish myself over the years in the city, any cost of living increase might not be too impactful. With my budget in mind, do you think that max $1300-$1400 is too little to live in in a place like Fitler Square? If I work in Center City, coming down from NW Philadelphia might be more of a arduous commute (Mount Airy)?
Quote:
Originally Posted by mjtinmemphis
I live in St Louis and love it.
Given your criteria and your post, I would choose Philadelphia. Philadelphia is a wonderful city. If I wasn't at my stage in life I would choose it for myself.
St Louis is worth taking a look at before making your final decision. The biggest pro with St. Louis is you will be getting a lot of city for your money. It's not on the level as Philadelphia but it is nice for its size and costs.
I thought about how much further your money can go in St. Louis. Thank you for the response. Glad to hear a local chime in. St. Louis and Missouri are just a big unknown to me. I have also considered Kansas City. Missouri's conservative politics might be a deal breaker. I know St. Louis city is very democratic, but I am not sure how progressive the city is as a whole.
With that, and given my criteria, what other areas of the country should I be looking at? For some strange reason Tacoma, Washington has piqued my interest. Denver seems to be getting too expensive. Chicago is a great deal, too. Milwaukee? Minneapolis?
Yes, I actually lived in Cleveland during undergrad. I agree, it is very underrated. It does have the mass transit, access to nature, and a robust land bank program. I have an affinity for Pennsylvania so that is why Pittsburgh and Philadelphia are at the top of my list. Great suggestion though.
Not having been to St. Louis it seems like it is very similar to Cleveland with respect to being underrated and overlooked for the assets that it does have. The architectural density in certain neighborhoods is what has caught my attention.
I agree about trying to get to Philadelphia sooner rather than later while it is a bargain, and I also have thought if I can establish myself over the years in the city, any cost of living increase might not be too impactful. With my budget in mind, do you think that max $1300-$1400 is too little to live in in a place like Fitler Square? If I work in Center City, coming down from NW Philadelphia might be more of a arduous commute (Mount Airy)?
I thought about how much further your money can go in St. Louis. Thank you for the response. Glad to hear a local chime in. St. Louis and Missouri are just a big unknown to me. I have also considered Kansas City. Missouri's conservative politics might be a deal breaker. I know St. Louis city is very democratic, but I am not sure how progressive the city is as a whole.
With that, and given my criteria, what other areas of the country should I be looking at? For some strange reason Tacoma, Washington has piqued my interest. Denver seems to be getting too expensive. Chicago is a great deal, too. Milwaukee? Minneapolis?
Providence RI is worth considering too if you're looking into cities like Milwaukee and Tacoma. Nice architecture, progressive, commuter rail to Boston, great bike trails in RI, close to RI/Cape Cod beaches, way more affordable than Boston.
I thought about how much further your money can go in St. Louis. Thank you for the response. Glad to hear a local chime in. St. Louis and Missouri are just a big unknown to me. I have also considered Kansas City. Missouri's conservative politics might be a deal breaker. I know St. Louis city is very democratic, but I am not sure how progressive the city is as a whole.
St. Louis City is one of the deepest blue voting jurisdictions in the United States, and it's not just "conventional Democrats" running the show. Rep. Cori Bush (D-St. Louis) won reelection to US Congress with more than 74% of the vote. The current mayoral administration in St. Louis is one of the most progressive in the country, and the city remains a bastion of liberalism that happens to be trapped in an increasingly backwards state. But the city itself continues to shift left.
Pittsburgh is the only one of these three I've been to, and I agree, it is a truly amazing city. Amazing. One of my favorite cities in America...
I'd probably prefer St Louis over Philadelphia, only having passed thru both. Something about StL seems more appealing, more real and natural and down to earth than Philly. I could be wrong, and personally wouldn't live in either, but as someone who's never been to either, from the outside looking in St Louis has more appeal to me...
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