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But that’s not the numbers. The numbers are overwhelmingly in Prince George’s County’s favor just vs. DC. A 40,000 dollar income gap between Black Washingtonians isn’t because all of Black Washington is single. Then PG County has a 2:1 ratio of actual Black residents/households. Then the other suburbs combined Charles, Montgomery, Fairfax, Prince William even Arlington/Alexandria have more black people in that bracket than PG, which has more than D.C.
I'm not even sure what you're arguing.
Numerically, the suburbs are going to have more six figure earners than DC because they have a larger Black population. Only 11% of the region's population actually lives in DC. So thank you for pointing that out, Captain Obvious.
The suburbs are also going to have a higher median HHI because there are more two-earner households and because there is less poverty in general due to exclusionary zoning policies, which is the case for every city proper in the United States.
When comparing the highest earning demographic, however, it is clear that the wealthiest Black people in the DC area live in Bethesda/Chevy Chase Potomac and Upper NW DC. This goes to MDAllStar's point that a lot of the people living in PG County couldn't afford to live there even if they wanted to so we can't deduce much about living preferences from raw numbers alone.
Numerically, the suburbs are going to have more six figure earners than DC because they have a larger Black population. Only 11% of the region's population actually lives in DC. So thank you for pointing that out, Captain Obvious.
The suburbs are also going to have a higher median HHI because there are more two-earner households and because there is less poverty in general due to exclusionary zoning policies, which is the case for every city proper in the United States.
When comparing the highest earning demographic, however, it is clear that the wealthiest Black people in the DC area live in Bethesda/Chevy Chase Potomac and Upper NW DC. This goes to MDAllStar's point that a lot of the people living in PG County couldn't afford to live there even if they wanted to so we can't deduce much about living preferences from raw numbers alone.
Maybe I don’t disagree with MDAllstar much. But I definitely disagree with this take. Your arguing the wealthiest black people live in regions that are in some cases have 5,000 black people which Bethesda+Potomac+Chevy Chase and the pocket communities have combined. Now the zip codes of 20015, 20016, 20007, 20008 may be the neighborhood within D.C you’re talking about. You might be talking about a larger area that includes more of the strict grid. But this area has less than 10,000 black people if this is what you’re referring to. So I’m total 15,000 black people.
Do you believe that black wealth is more significant in this area than say the string of suburbs around Bowie Maryland which might not have as high a median income but easily has 10 times the number of black people.
This is what i mean when I say black wealth. Of the roughly 150,000 people who are black in PG county in this area outside of the Beltway but particularly centered around Bowie/Woodmore do you think that these folks don’t have more wealth as a unit than the 15,000 individuals in the most exclusive part of Montgomery County/NW D.C?
Do you think it’s possible that there are 15,000 black people in that region that can afford to move to the exclusive areas of D.C but choose not to. That’s what I mean by the numbers aren’t in your favor.
There is so many more wealthy black people in PG County or in many of these suburban counties that to make the argument that actual black wealth is concentrated in the city and it’s another level of exclusion doesn’t make sense. I’ll give you multi-millionaires probably but there is a lot of upper middle income black folks that choose to live outside the city while being able to afford some exclusive areas in D.C. obviously the neighborhoods that are solely 10 million dollar houses excluded. But I don’t mean just neighborhoods that have more than 1 million behind them when I say wealth.
You are right that I’ve lost the point of what I’m arguing because I don’t think much of what you brought up will lead to D.C being blacker than Atlanta in 20 years. While the Black singles who can afford D.C will move into the gentrified parts. I just feel like far more of the D.C area will go through a more thorough definition of the word gentrification than Atlanta.
Last edited by NigerianNightmare; 04-12-2023 at 03:40 PM..
Was that the argument? I was thinking the analysis was about what that income means for amenities, restaurants, and entertainment, etc. Black communities around America regardless of where you live in America have suffered from a lack of amenities compared to their counterparts. Prince George’s County is the perfect example of that. The most wealthy Black county in America still lacks access to amenities provided in DC and adjacent counties. The discussion about wealthy households without children was about amenities. I think the reason Prince George’s County lacks amenities is because of the age and makeup of the families. Amenities follow young people with money because that population spends the most money and time away from home. Black households without children in every city in America fall into that category.
I’ve said all that to make the point that Black households without children that have a high median income also have a lot of discretionary income which attracts restaurants, entertainment venues, and retail in general. Those are the things that make cities so dynamic along with high density and walkability. That’s why I think that distinction is important.
So if we’re measuring wealth in these jurisdictions, it isn’t just a number. It’s what has transpired because of that wealth. For the areas with the most money, what exists in those communities as a result of that wealth?
I disagree, with your core point but mostly agree overall. The community that spends the most money even in Black America are the 40-65 year olds and often those with families.
I say that as a statistical fact. Society caters to that age group in every which way because they have the most money. The only thing Gen X’ers don’t have yet is Seats in Congress even though like I said previously They are are the most important voter base.
Prince George’s County struggles for reasons completely unrelated to age and it’s a situation where race outweighs the age range of the people involved. I wouldn’t be surprised if Montgomery County and Arlington/Fairfax County had more retail dollars per capita than D.C although I don’t know if it’s true and commuter patterns would ruin said data. I’ll do some research into it though.
I do agree that Singles and DINKs in D.C probably have a lot of disposable income. But my question is when we are talking Black people in D.C are these folk anywhere near the majority? I know they are a significant minority. I also agree that density plays a massive role.
40-65 year olds might not be represented well in the media as a demographic because people like to see themselves younger on TV but that demographic will top any list of income because that is and has been peak monetary compensation since at least the Industrial Revolution and the expansion of office jobs. Maybe when labor was more physical about a century ago, the argument would be different.
I do agree that Singles and DINKs in D.C probably have a lot of disposable income. But my question is when we are talking Black people in D.C are these folk anywhere near the majority? I know they are a significant minority. I also agree that density plays a massive role.
I think the whole argument is base on the fact that there are black singles/dinks that are moving to DC, especially EOTR, except that argument is flaw...
1. EOTR as-is is already heavily black. It's not going to increase the black ratio.
2. The wealthy blacks is a small group
3. It does not factor in the fact that wealthy non-blacks are also moving into DC, most likely in larger number. They have to even if the wealth are distribute evenly (and it's not) - i.e. assuming the wealthy people demographics follow the national trend.
4. The #1 group that is getting priced out of DC right now are the less well off blacks, some of whom lives in DC for generations.
Maybe I don’t disagree with MDAllstar much. But I definitely disagree with this take. Your arguing the wealthiest black people live in regions that are in some cases have 5,000 black people which Bethesda+Potomac+Chevy Chase and the pocket communities have combined. Now the zip codes of 20015, 20016, 20007, 20008 may be the neighborhood within D.C you’re talking about. You might be talking about a larger area that includes more of the strict grid. But this area has less than 10,000 black people if this is what you’re referring to. So I’m total 15,000 black people.
We're not even talking about the same thing.
MDAllStar said people who live in PG County can't afford to live in DC. While that statement is way too broad, there is a large kernel of truth in it.
What you are talking about is different. PG County has a high median income among places that are majority Black, but it is not home to a majority of "wealthy" Black people in the DC area.
I think the whole argument is base on the fact that there are black singles/dinks that are moving to DC, especially EOTR, except that argument is flaw...
1. EOTR as-is is already heavily black. It's not going to increase the black ratio.
2. The wealthy blacks is a small group
3. It does not factor in the fact that wealthy non-blacks are also moving into DC, most likely in larger number. They have to even if the wealth are distribute evenly (and it's not) - i.e. assuming the wealthy people demographics follow the national trend.
4. The #1 group that is getting priced out of DC right now are the less well off blacks, some of whom lives in DC for generations.
I have to rep you again but I agree 100%. I think Atlanta’s physical size and the fact South of I-20 Atlanta is basically untouched and SW Atlanta might not get gentrified in any meaningful way by the time I pass is what’s keeping me firmly on the Atlanta side of the discussion. Buckhead will probably get more black over time as wealthier black people start being able to afford that area more. But once you take out Buckhead and the equivalent area in D.C which in my opinion is the area between Montgomery County and Beach Drive, this represents the area likely losing black people as a whole. Now if you take out the areas of Atlanta South of I-20 except areas within a mile of Downtown and the areas EOTR in Wahsington D.C I think these areas will remain supermajority black for a long time.
If you analyze these three regions of each city separately I think the truth will reveal itself as far as future demographics. Buckhead is an unusual amount of Atlanta from a size and population perspective while the same area is much smaller in D.C. the Black area contributes much less to D.CS overall population than Atlanta. Now, the middle zones is the toss up. Whoever gentrifies faster in this region will affect the population but you can tignkre the demographic changes or lack of change in the other regions of the city. Many parts of the region in both Atlanta and D.C are majority black but I’m unsure how long that will last in both cities.
As both cities are progressive rather than complete gentrification (Black population well below >15%), the cities may instrument ways like 10% or 15% of housing being income restricted for whatever reason.
I actually think MD's statement was "the money is in DC" or something like that. I suppose this also depends on your definition of "money." There is a big difference between a GS-15 making $184,000 per year and a law firm partner making $1.84 million per year. A low six-figure salary simply isn't that impressive in coastal cities.
MDAllStar said people who live in PG County can't afford to live in DC. While that statement is way too broad, there is a large kernel of truth in it.
What you are talking about is different. PG County has a high median income among places that are majority Black, but it is not home to a majority of "wealthy" Black people in the DC area.
This is what I’m talking about: I said Prince George’s County has the most Black upper middle class/wealthy but I don’t mean it’s where most of the wealth is. I just think the region has the most of the counties/regions of D.C. more than all of Northern Virginia, More than the rest of Maryland in the DMV (especially if we don’t include Anne Arundel and Howard). More than D.C. maybe it has less than D.C +Montgomery or Arlington+ Alexandria+Fairfax+Loudoun+Montgomery.
But that’s what I mean by Prince George’s County is we’re black wealth is concentrated. It’s not the wealthiest black people, but it’s a combination of wealth and a very large number of black people living there.
MDAllStar said people who live in PG County can't afford to live in DC. While that statement is way too broad, there is a large kernel of truth in it.
That's true if you have a family and drive everywhere. If you're single w/o kids and use transit, it's debatable, especially if your job is in DC itself. You'd save so much on the costs of owning a car, and PG County's rents for a studio/1BR that aren't in the warzones are almost similar to the"nice" areas of DC proper.
Unless my job was in Maryland I have no desire to move there and deal with the crazy income tax. Same can be said for DC tho(good grief have you seen their tax rates?).
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