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Seattle was also one of the biggest "it" cities of the 90s, if not the biggest. You had the super huge and influential Grunge movement coming out of there, with major labels storming Seattle signing everyone while in search of the next Nirvana or Pearl Jam.
As Pitchfork put it, "Grunge (i.e. the Seattle Sound) became the sort of once-in-a-generation phenomenon that permanently altered the sound of rock radio, turned the surplus-store discount rack into catwalk fodder, and inspired hordes of disaffected Gen Xers to grow their hair longer and shower less."
Then you also had all the Seattle coffee places - Starbucks, Tully's, Seattle's Best, etc - taking the country and world by storm. Seattle-centric movies like "Sleepless in Seattle" and "Singles" were suddenly popular. Even the biggest hip-hop single of 1992 was by Seattle rapper Sir Mix-a-Lot. It was called "Mecca" by Spin magazine and referenced as the "cool" city in shows like Seinfeld, Beavis and Butthead, and The Simpsons. Heck, even Dr. Evil had his headquarters at the top of the Space Needle. White suburban kids from across the country were clamoring to get flannel shirts and Doc Martins, the signature Seattle look. The 1999 WTO protests in Seattle were also infamous.
In hindsight, it's actually quite bizarre and unprecedented that a relatively isolated mid-sized city could have such an outsized cultural impact and influence (I don't think it would be possible today). It really had nowhere to go but down in terms of cultural relevance and, while it still punches above its weight in that category, Seattle today has nowhere near the cultural cache that it had in the 90s.
Now from an economic and urbanist standpoint, Seattle certainly has become more relevant than it used to be. Until the 1980s, it was a one-horse town with almost everyone working for Boeing or on a boat. The economy has diversified greatly since then and it is now considered one of the largest tech hubs in the country and the world. The number of skyscrapers and the amount of dense housing has exploded in recent decades. But in terms of cultural impact and relevance, I think it's fair to assume Seattle will never again reach the heights that it saw in the 1990s.
I wasn’t in Seattle in the 90s but this totally resonates with me. I’ve lived here long enough to have heard a lot of the stories and it definitely sounds like it was a fun, wild place to be at that time. But it has gone the San Francisco route and become a much more sterile, corporate city, albeit with some of the roots still there if you dig deep enough.
Seattle was also one of the biggest "it" cities of the 90s, if not the biggest. You had the super huge and influential Grunge movement coming out of there, with major labels storming Seattle signing everyone while in search of the next Nirvana or Pearl Jam.
As Pitchfork put it, "Grunge (i.e. the Seattle Sound) became the sort of once-in-a-generation phenomenon that permanently altered the sound of rock radio, turned the surplus-store discount rack into catwalk fodder, and inspired hordes of disaffected Gen Xers to grow their hair longer and shower less."
Then you also had all the Seattle coffee places - Starbucks, Tully's, Seattle's Best, etc - taking the country and world by storm. Seattle-centric movies like "Sleepless in Seattle" and "Singles" were suddenly popular. Even the biggest hip-hop single of 1992 was by Seattle rapper Sir Mix-a-Lot. It was called "Mecca" by Spin magazine and referenced as the "cool" city in shows like Seinfeld, Beavis and Butthead, and The Simpsons. Heck, even Dr. Evil had his headquarters at the top of the Space Needle. White suburban kids from across the country were clamoring to get flannel shirts and Doc Martins, the signature Seattle look. The 1999 WTO protests in Seattle were also infamous.
In hindsight, it's actually quite bizarre and unprecedented that a relatively isolated mid-sized city could have such an outsized cultural impact and influence (I don't think it would be possible today). It really had nowhere to go but down in terms of cultural relevance and, while it still punches above its weight in that category, Seattle today has nowhere near the cultural cache that it had in the 90s.
Now from an economic and urbanist standpoint, Seattle certainly has become more relevant than it used to be. Until the 1980s, it was a one-horse town with almost everyone working for Boeing or on a boat. The economy has diversified greatly since then and it is now considered one of the largest tech hubs in the country and the world. The number of skyscrapers and the amount of dense housing has exploded in recent decades. But in terms of cultural impact and relevance, I think it's fair to assume Seattle will never again reach the heights that it saw in the 1990s.
I disagree. You can argue that the Amazon fueled boom of the 10s was even bigger than the 90s boom. Less in a cultural sense but more in an economic sense. And Amazon & Microsoft still dominate their fields, with no competitors in sight. Both of which were barely dominant when "Nevermind" was released.
Seattle has a lot of things going for it, having nothing to do with relatively trivial things like clothes and Kurt Cobain. It's a regional hub. It receives and is a port of entry for the fastest growing immigrant groups in America. It's companies dominate. It's even still popular in the Indie scene. It's still perceived as THE safe city...without the social ills of the NE and Southern and increasingly LA. I'd expect Seattle has another boom or two in it.
Doesn't look like they use the loss of Oprah or Belushi in their rankings. I'm guessing, for example, Finance, may be of more importance to those who really know.
To be quite honest, economically speaking, Chicago has never been more irrelevant.
On a per capita basis, it’s middling. So far from where it once was, unfortunately. It’s just another city, looking up at places like San Francisco, Boston, Seattle. My grandfather is rolling over in his grave.
Yes it had Belushi. It also had a resume. Now, it has less of either. Alpha, no doubt. But, less than it once was in most ways, certainly in the minds of the general populous. Which, I should remind you, is the entire point of this thread.
As I said upthread, Chicago will have its day again. It’s too big not to. In the interim, it’s never been more irrelevant. Darn near fact.
To be quite honest, economically speaking, Chicago has never been more irrelevant.
On a per capita basis, it’s middling. So far from where it once was, unfortunately. It’s just another city, looking up at places like San Francisco, Boston, Seattle. My grandfather is rolling over in his grave.
Yes it had Belushi. It also had a resume. Now, it has less of either. Alpha, no doubt. But, less than it once was in most ways, certainly in the minds of the general populous. Which, I should remind you, is the entire point of this thread.
As I said upthread, Chicago will have its day again. It’s too big not to. In the interim, it’s never been more irrelevant. Darn near fact.
I don't disagree, Chicago has definitely seen better days and I hate to see that... but idk about SF being an aspirational place right now either. If anything I'd probably throw it on the decline category in more ways than not.
I don't disagree, Chicago has definitely seen better days and I hate to see that... but idk about SF being an aspirational place right now either. If anything I'd probably throw it on the decline category in more ways than not.
SF is hard to place.
Certainly COVID has tanked our nightlife and it doesn't seem to be recovering, and our population is dropping like a rock --- even in the suburbs. Are we more dangerous now than we used to be, though? I'd think that the crime increase downtown is more than offset by all the gentrification over the past few decades in the rest of the city. And there was the AIDS crisis in the '80s and '90s.
Tech is more important than ever --- just as Twitter, Meta, etc. have started to struggle, AI companies are disrupting everything. Still, a lot of that work is remote and it's unclear how much that will change. Good riddance --- no reason to force people to commute 2 hours into SF just because "human connection" and whatnot.
I don't disagree, Chicago has definitely seen better days and I hate to see that... but idk about SF being an aspirational place right now either. If anything I'd probably throw it on the decline category in more ways than not.
SF is definitely in a rough patch on some fronts right now (as are many cities), but “over our lifetime” (or within the last 20-30 years) which is the thread focus, it has moved into the same general tier as Chicago whereas Chicago has moved down a tier.
SF is definitely in a rough patch on some fronts right now (as are many cities), but “over our lifetime” (or within the last 20-30 years) which is the thread focus, it has moved into the same general tier as Chicago whereas Chicago has moved down a tier.
My lifetime starts in 1980. Looking at cities that anchor metros over 1 million I'd say it like this. (Just going down the Wikipedia list for MSA's)
New York - No change
LA - Grown
Chicago - Decreased a bit
Dallas - Grown
Houston - Grown
DC - Grown
Philly - No change
Atlanta - Grown
Miami - Grown
Phoenix - Grown
Boston - Grown
Riverside is a fraud metro
San Francisco - Grown
Detroit - Dropped quite a bit
Seattle - Grown
MSP - About the same
San Diego - Not sure
Tampa - Grown
Denver - Grown
Baltimore - Dropped quite a bit
St. Louis - Dropped quite a bit
Charlotte - Grown a lot
Orlando - Huge jump
San Antonio - About the same
Portland - Grown
Sacramento - Grown
Pittsburgh - Dropped
Austin - Grown a lot
Las Vegas - Grown a lot
Cincinatti - Dropped
Kansas City - Dropped a bit
Columbus - Grown
Indianapolis - Grown
Cleveland - Dropped quite a bit
Nashville - Grown a lot
San Jose is a suburb of San Francisco
Norfolk - Has grown but has probably peaked in this context
Providence - Dropped
Jacksonville - Grown a lot
Milwaukee - Grown
Raliegh - Grown a lot
OKC - Grown a lot
Memphis - Dropped
Richmond - Dropped a bit
Louisville - Dropped
Salt Lake City - Grown a lot
New Orleans - Dropped
Hartford - Dropped
Buffalo - Dropped
Birmingham - Grown but has probably peaked in this metric
Grand Rapids - Grown
Rochester - Dropped
Tucson - Grown
Tulsa - Not sure
Fresno - Grown
Honolulu - Grown but has probably peaked in this metric
Dropped: Chicago, Memphis, Oakland, St. Louis, Hartford
Born in 1994
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