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Atlanta? I don’t really see it as fading. It’s growing rapidly and lots of good things are happening for the city.
That's great. It has faded for me.
Quote:
Originally Posted by Mutiny77
So you actually believe Atlanta is less relevant today than it was when you were a kid?
Yeah. It is too linear and who's who for me despite the growth. Buckhead is not as safe. Downtown is not vibrant like Midtown. Marta not expanding as previously projected. More homeless as well. Traffic out of control.
Atlanta is obviously growing and obviously important. But when I was a kid, the Braves won the World Series and Atlanta hosted the Olympics. I remember the Olympic torch passing through my town on its way to the games… So, while it has grown since the 1990s it’s not hard to see how it’s less important on a relative basis. Also, it’s less dominant than it used to be regionally.
And this decade will also see the Braves win a World Series and Atlanta host a prominent international sporting event (the World Cup in '26). And between the 90s and this decade, Atlanta has only blossomed as a major music and media hub in particular.
Yeah. It is too linear and who's who for me despite the growth. Buckhead is not as safe. Downtown is not vibrant like Midtown. Marta not expanding as previously projected. More homeless as well. Traffic out of control.
Are you unable--or just unwilling--to view this subject objectively?
3 pages in and no one has mentioned New York in regards to decline. This board's historic East Coast/New York bias won't even allow the consideration of NY in decline in any aspect lol...
For clarity, I was born in '89 so I grew up and cane of age in the 90s and 00s, I'm black, and my entire upbringing, save a year in Memphis, was between California and mainly Virginia; these characteristics are relevant as the influences of all likely shaped the perceptive view I grew up with!
Greater NY MSA has grown by 19.55% in my lifetime, from the '90 Census thru the '20 Census, and the City of New York has grown by 20.23% in my lifetime during the same span. So in terms of population, and economically as well, NY hasn't suffered decline---->what I'm speaking of is NY's waning influence over the country as a whole, and point two, that while 20% growth over 30 years is healthy, numerous cities have exceeded that level of growth by multiples in thw same time frame...
The New York I grew up under was the place everybody wanted to be. It was the epicenter of hip hop, the epicenter of American fashion, the epicenter of American media. On just these three points alone:
In the last 30 years, hip hop has gone from a burgeoning but still niche genre, to not just the biggest American music genre, today hip hop is the most popular musical art form on the planet. It's an entire culture that was birthed in NY, and was a largely NY-dominant culture when the genre was less mainstream. As hip hop grew in popularity it also became less NY-centric, and this is proven in many ways...
This is so relevant to the point because hip hop is the music of the country. It's everywhere now, listened to across all demographics, crossed over into older genres that now incorporate hip hip into their form with regularity. It's the primary soundtrack of cinema of varying genres. It's influence has always been youthful, but back I'm the day it was nearly entirely youthful...
The kids who grew up on 80s and 90s hip hop, many are 40+, and what you have is a dynamic that didn't exist in '93---->50 year olds with hip hop as their primary musical choice...
Today, NY is still home to the legacy radio stations and legacy hip hop reputation in general, that it basically has across American pop culture. But NY isn't the first city most hip hip heads think of anymore. It's not the city setting the hip hop trends anymore, and hasn't for probably about 20 years now. It's been about 20 years of waning influence that continues to dwindle, contemporary NY hip hop borrows from other cities' styles more than the reverse...
I just think with how large hip hop is globally, this is a point worth mentioning. You don't have to go to NY to get a foot in the industry anymore. NY isn't even the most desirable place to go to anymore, whereas in generations past hip hop artists from far and wide trekked to NY to make it in the industry...
Fashion and media are much the same. NY is the ultimate legacy city, will always be relevant. The large conglomerates across numerous industries are mostly all headquartered in NY, but this is more a symbol of NY's legacy than NY's pop culture relevance today...
To be sure, I'm clearly not saying NY is no longer relevant. I'm saying it's relevance and influence is pretty dramatically reversed from what it was. I've known just as many people my age who moved to NY for the big city experience, as have moved to DC for the same, and I've known more people to try out Atlanta for that experience just the same. Once you get east of the Atlantic Seaboard, NY starts losing physical influence almost immediately. And when you west of The Mississippi NY's influence is almost undetectable. I've been out here in Vegas for two weeks and I've heard NY mentioned twice (Brooklyn by two different people)...
You know who I do hear alot about, is Los Angeles, almost everyday, and this harkens back to my post last year during my time in Boise, same dynamic. This board has always had a disconnect on LA's influence in reality compared to NY's, and how the two cities are perceived in comparison to each other. New York isn't a topic here, and this underscores that an individual's reality is largely regional. NY is ”The mecca” to everything on the Atlantic coast. That isnt how most of the rest of the nation views New York City...
People don't need NY's fashion nor media to set the trends because so much influential fashion and media are coming from elsewhere...
So I guess my point is, while the city hasn't declined, the popularity of the city has certainly decreased...
3 pages in and no one has mentioned New York in regards to decline. This board's historic East Coast/New York bias won't even allow the consideration of NY in decline in any aspect lol...
For clarity, I was born in '89 so I grew up and cane of age in the 90s and 00s, I'm black, and my entire upbringing, save a year in Memphis, was between California and mainly Virginia; these characteristics are relevant as the influences of all likely shaped the perceptive view I grew up with!
Greater NY MSA has grown by 19.55% in my lifetime, from the '90 Census thru the '20 Census, and the City of New York has grown by 20.23% in my lifetime during the same span. So in terms of population, and economically as well, NY hasn't suffered decline---->what I'm speaking of is NY's waning influence over the country as a whole, and point two, that while 20% growth over 30 years is healthy, numerous cities have exceeded that level of growth by multiples in thw same time frame...
The New York I grew up under was the place everybody wanted to be. It was the epicenter of hip hop, the epicenter of American fashion, the epicenter of American media. On just these three points alone:
In the last 30 years, hip hop has gone from a burgeoning but still niche genre, to not just the biggest American music genre, today hip hop is the most popular musical art form on the planet. It's an entire culture that was birthed in NY, and was a largely NY-dominant culture when the genre was less mainstream. As hip hop grew in popularity it also became less NY-centric, and this is proven in many ways...
This is so relevant to the point because hip hop is the music of the country. It's everywhere now, listened to across all demographics, crossed over into older genres that now incorporate hip hip into their form with regularity. It's the primary soundtrack of cinema of varying genres. It's influence has always been youthful, but back I'm the day it was nearly entirely youthful...
The kids who grew up on 80s and 90s hip hop, many are 40+, and what you have is a dynamic that didn't exist in '93---->50 year olds with hip hop as their primary musical choice...
Today, NY is still home to the legacy radio stations and legacy hip hop reputation in general, that it basically has across American pop culture. But NY isn't the first city most hip hip heads think of anymore. It's not the city setting the hip hop trends anymore, and hasn't for probably about 20 years now. It's been about 20 years of waning influence that continues to dwindle, contemporary NY hip hop borrows from other cities' styles more than the reverse...
I just think with how large hip hop is globally, this is a point worth mentioning. You don't have to go to NY to get a foot in the industry anymore. NY isn't even the most desirable place to go to anymore, whereas in generations past hip hop artists from far and wide trekked to NY to make it in the industry...
Fashion and media are much the same. NY is the ultimate legacy city, will always be relevant. The large conglomerates across numerous industries are mostly all headquartered in NY, but this is more a symbol of NY's legacy than NY's pop culture relevance today...
To be sure, I'm clearly not saying NY is no longer relevant. I'm saying it's relevance and influence is pretty dramatically reversed from what it was. I've known just as many people my age who moved to NY for the big city experience, as have moved to DC for the same, and I've known more people to try out Atlanta for that experience just the same. Once you get east of the Atlantic Seaboard, NY starts losing physical influence almost immediately. And when you west of The Mississippi NY's influence is almost undetectable. I've been out here in Vegas for two weeks and I've heard NY mentioned twice (Brooklyn by two different people)...
You know who I do hear alot about, is Los Angeles, almost everyday, and this harkens back to my post last year during my time in Boise, same dynamic. This board has always had a disconnect on LA's influence in reality compared to NY's, and how the two cities are perceived in comparison to each other. New York isn't a topic here, and this underscores that an individual's reality is largely regional. NY is ”The mecca” to everything on the Atlantic coast. That isnt how most of the rest of the nation views New York City...
People don't need NY's fashion nor media to set the trends because so much influential fashion and media are coming from elsewhere...
So I guess my point is, while the city hasn't declined, the popularity of the city has certainly decreased...
If there's one place I think could rise that's not as obvious as others have already mentioned it's Phoenix. A lot of Bay Area people I know who've moved to Austin think it's "too Texas", and the pro-life, right wing social policies are becoming more of a turn off for Californians who might move, especially since abortion became illegal there. Whether you agree or disagree with the policy, it's unquestionably bad for attracting tech/biotech companies. Arizona has legal weed and legal abortion (up to 15 weeks), and is far less of a culture change coming from California than Texas is. Yet it still offers cheaper housing, interesting Western scenery, and an escape from the worst outcomes of crazy government. It's getting huge investment in semiconductor fabs, and could benefit as more higher income Californians look for something closer to home and more in line with their lifestyles than Texas.
I don't think this has much to do with any perception of Chicago's decline. Yes, it's a plus if a city has an awesome natural setting -- I constantly note my hometown Cleveland is much underrated for this (and a lot of other things) and, yes, Lake Michigan is a huge one: no American world-class mega city has a pristine beach that extends to the fringes of its downtown... But people don't think of, or migrate to, big cities primarily for their natural resources. They do so because of the big city aspects a place has: a booming economy (lots of business and RE opportunities), a bustling exciting environment esp downtown and key accessible walkable neighborhoods, lots of arts & culture, activities (major sports esp), great shopping, ... for many, like me, quality transit and a great diversity of people, cultures, and ideas.
They might not think of it immediately but the lack of natural amenities outside of Lake Michigan starts to grate on you after a couple of years. The professional class is highly mobile and I think as cities become more and more similar with identical manmade amenities, natural amenities become more sought after in recent years. They eventually move on. The lake while nice on first glance is decidedly not an ocean nor even an estuary which at least makes things more interesting. The nicer parts of it are on the Michigan side which requires driving through Gary Indiana and 10 lane industrial highways packed with semi trucks. It’s also highly treacherous with frequent drownings and I knew someone close who drowned in it. I believe the statistics show it to be much more dangerous than the coastal bays.
Bottom line is it’s very hard to escape Chicagoland that’s not a flight away.
If there's one place I think could rise that's not as obvious as others have already mentioned it's Phoenix. A lot of Bay Area people I know who've moved to Austin think it's "too Texas", and the pro-life, right wing social policies are becoming more of a turn off for Californians who might move, especially since abortion became illegal there. Whether you agree or disagree with the policy, it's unquestionably bad for attracting tech/biotech companies. Arizona has legal weed and legal abortion (up to 15 weeks), and is far less of a culture change coming from California than Texas is. Yet it still offers cheaper housing, interesting Western scenery, and an escape from the worst outcomes of crazy government. It's getting huge investment in semiconductor fabs, and could benefit as more higher income Californians look for something closer to home and more in line with their lifestyles than Texas.
Phoenix is a great example, and this is coming from someone who's not a fan of the city. It's rapidly becoming "cooler" with neighborhoods like Roosevelt Row, Melrose, and DT Tempe, and it has an expanding light rail system, which many 2-5 million metros don't. It's a logical choice to move to if you want to keep some connection to the west coast/CA (like family/friends, or a job you occasionally have to fly into) and you want 90% of the amenities you had back at home for 40% of the price tag.
One thing that could ding Arizona in the near-term is the anti-trans stuff --- the state outlawed all gender-affirming care for minors back in March, and more bills are in the works. This is rapidly becoming the cultural dividing line of our day, and it could make the state less appealing to the west coast liberals it's trying to attract.
It is funny, Chicago now is bigger and more beautiful than ever with the riverwalk, all the neighborhoods, Mill Park, River North, West Loop, etc.
I would say Chicago is a better and more appealing place to LIVE now than ever.
In regards to notoriety nationally, it is less, as a huge sports fans all our teams have been awful, obviously past the MJ era, no Oprah, Sears Tower is now the 30th(I dont actually know) tallest building in the world, etc.
It is far safer than the 90s and "glory era" but when Obama got President, the press and esp Fox decided Chicago crime always.
Not saying there is not a problem, but per capita not even close.
To the poster saying NYC, I agree. I love NYC, my favorite city. It is now a city of the rich and gentirfication has destroyed many great parts of the cities and boroughs. Downtown Brooklyn is so sterile now and Hell's Kitchen is as well with Hudson Yards.
The energy is still there, but just not the same IMO back in the 80s 2000s for me.
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