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It is funny, Chicago now is bigger and more beautiful than ever with the riverwalk, all the neighborhoods, Mill Park, River North, West Loop, etc.
I would say Chicago is a better and more appealing place to LIVE now than ever.
In regards to notoriety nationally, it is less, as a huge sports fans all our teams have been awful, obviously past the MJ era, no Oprah, Sears Tower is now the 30th(I dont actually know) tallest building in the world, etc.
It is far safer than the 90s and "glory era" but when Obama got President, the press and esp Fox decided Chicago crime always.
Not saying there is not a problem, but per capita not even close.
To the poster saying NYC, I agree. I love NYC, my favorite city. It is now a city of the rich and gentirfication has destroyed many great parts of the cities and boroughs. Downtown Brooklyn is so sterile now and Hell's Kitchen is as well with Hudson Yards.
The energy is still there, but just not the same IMO back in the 80s 2000s for me.
I think most of Chicago's more recent reputation is more about the drill music scene/"chiraq" than the Obama admin honestly.
3 pages in and no one has mentioned New York in regards to decline. This board's historic East Coast/New York bias won't even allow the consideration of NY in decline in any aspect lol...
For clarity, I was born in '89 so I grew up and cane of age in the 90s and 00s, I'm black, and my entire upbringing, save a year in Memphis, was between California and mainly Virginia; these characteristics are relevant as the influences of all likely shaped the perceptive view I grew up with!
Greater NY MSA has grown by 19.55% in my lifetime, from the '90 Census thru the '20 Census, and the City of New York has grown by 20.23% in my lifetime during the same span. So in terms of population, and economically as well, NY hasn't suffered decline---->what I'm speaking of is NY's waning influence over the country as a whole, and point two, that while 20% growth over 30 years is healthy, numerous cities have exceeded that level of growth by multiples in thw same time frame...
The New York I grew up under was the place everybody wanted to be. It was the epicenter of hip hop, the epicenter of American fashion, the epicenter of American media. On just these three points alone:
In the last 30 years, hip hop has gone from a burgeoning but still niche genre, to not just the biggest American music genre, today hip hop is the most popular musical art form on the planet. It's an entire culture that was birthed in NY, and was a largely NY-dominant culture when the genre was less mainstream. As hip hop grew in popularity it also became less NY-centric, and this is proven in many ways...
This is so relevant to the point because hip hop is the music of the country. It's everywhere now, listened to across all demographics, crossed over into older genres that now incorporate hip hip into their form with regularity. It's the primary soundtrack of cinema of varying genres. It's influence has always been youthful, but back I'm the day it was nearly entirely youthful...
The kids who grew up on 80s and 90s hip hop, many are 40+, and what you have is a dynamic that didn't exist in '93---->50 year olds with hip hop as their primary musical choice...
Today, NY is still home to the legacy radio stations and legacy hip hop reputation in general, that it basically has across American pop culture. But NY isn't the first city most hip hip heads think of anymore. It's not the city setting the hip hop trends anymore, and hasn't for probably about 20 years now. It's been about 20 years of waning influence that continues to dwindle, contemporary NY hip hop borrows from other cities' styles more than the reverse...
I just think with how large hip hop is globally, this is a point worth mentioning. You don't have to go to NY to get a foot in the industry anymore. NY isn't even the most desirable place to go to anymore, whereas in generations past hip hop artists from far and wide trekked to NY to make it in the industry...
Fashion and media are much the same. NY is the ultimate legacy city, will always be relevant. The large conglomerates across numerous industries are mostly all headquartered in NY, but this is more a symbol of NY's legacy than NY's pop culture relevance today...
To be sure, I'm clearly not saying NY is no longer relevant. I'm saying it's relevance and influence is pretty dramatically reversed from what it was. I've known just as many people my age who moved to NY for the big city experience, as have moved to DC for the same, and I've known more people to try out Atlanta for that experience just the same. Once you get east of the Atlantic Seaboard, NY starts losing physical influence almost immediately. And when you west of The Mississippi NY's influence is almost undetectable. I've been out here in Vegas for two weeks and I've heard NY mentioned twice (Brooklyn by two different people)...
You know who I do hear alot about, is Los Angeles, almost everyday, and this harkens back to my post last year during my time in Boise, same dynamic. This board has always had a disconnect on LA's influence in reality compared to NY's, and how the two cities are perceived in comparison to each other. New York isn't a topic here, and this underscores that an individual's reality is largely regional. NY is ”The mecca” to everything on the Atlantic coast. That isnt how most of the rest of the nation views New York City...
People don't need NY's fashion nor media to set the trends because so much influential fashion and media are coming from elsewhere...
So I guess my point is, while the city hasn't declined, the popularity of the city has certainly decreased...
I’m wondering if the LA influence is due to many people moving from LA to Vegas as well. I say that because LA seems to be the reverse of NYC in regards to the further away, the less influence.
I also think of say Basketball when I think of NYC and what I see happening is that there is a rebirth of sorts in that scene for the city(and even state). I honestly wouldn’t be surprised if you start seeing more pro players coming out of NYC/NYS in the coming years from what I can tell. So, I think for NYC, there may be something in the back of some people’s minds that it can bounce back in various sectors, including Hip Hop, relatively quickly.
3 pages in and no one has mentioned New York in regards to decline. This board's historic East Coast/New York bias won't even allow the consideration of NY in decline in any aspect lol...
For clarity, I was born in '89 so I grew up and cane of age in the 90s and 00s, I'm black, and my entire upbringing, save a year in Memphis, was between California and mainly Virginia; these characteristics are relevant as the influences of all likely shaped the perceptive view I grew up with!
Greater NY MSA has grown by 19.55% in my lifetime, from the '90 Census thru the '20 Census, and the City of New York has grown by 20.23% in my lifetime during the same span. So in terms of population, and economically as well, NY hasn't suffered decline---->what I'm speaking of is NY's waning influence over the country as a whole, and point two, that while 20% growth over 30 years is healthy, numerous cities have exceeded that level of growth by multiples in thw same time frame...
The New York I grew up under was the place everybody wanted to be. It was the epicenter of hip hop, the epicenter of American fashion, the epicenter of American media. On just these three points alone:
In the last 30 years, hip hop has gone from a burgeoning but still niche genre, to not just the biggest American music genre, today hip hop is the most popular musical art form on the planet. It's an entire culture that was birthed in NY, and was a largely NY-dominant culture when the genre was less mainstream. As hip hop grew in popularity it also became less NY-centric, and this is proven in many ways...
This is so relevant to the point because hip hop is the music of the country. It's everywhere now, listened to across all demographics, crossed over into older genres that now incorporate hip hip into their form with regularity. It's the primary soundtrack of cinema of varying genres. It's influence has always been youthful, but back I'm the day it was nearly entirely youthful...
The kids who grew up on 80s and 90s hip hop, many are 40+, and what you have is a dynamic that didn't exist in '93---->50 year olds with hip hop as their primary musical choice...
Today, NY is still home to the legacy radio stations and legacy hip hop reputation in general, that it basically has across American pop culture. But NY isn't the first city most hip hip heads think of anymore. It's not the city setting the hip hop trends anymore, and hasn't for probably about 20 years now. It's been about 20 years of waning influence that continues to dwindle, contemporary NY hip hop borrows from other cities' styles more than the reverse...
I just think with how large hip hop is globally, this is a point worth mentioning. You don't have to go to NY to get a foot in the industry anymore. NY isn't even the most desirable place to go to anymore, whereas in generations past hip hop artists from far and wide trekked to NY to make it in the industry...
Fashion and media are much the same. NY is the ultimate legacy city, will always be relevant. The large conglomerates across numerous industries are mostly all headquartered in NY, but this is more a symbol of NY's legacy than NY's pop culture relevance today...
To be sure, I'm clearly not saying NY is no longer relevant. I'm saying it's relevance and influence is pretty dramatically reversed from what it was. I've known just as many people my age who moved to NY for the big city experience, as have moved to DC for the same, and I've known more people to try out Atlanta for that experience just the same. Once you get east of the Atlantic Seaboard, NY starts losing physical influence almost immediately. And when you west of The Mississippi NY's influence is almost undetectable. I've been out here in Vegas for two weeks and I've heard NY mentioned twice (Brooklyn by two different people)...
You know who I do hear alot about, is Los Angeles, almost everyday, and this harkens back to my post last year during my time in Boise, same dynamic. This board has always had a disconnect on LA's influence in reality compared to NY's, and how the two cities are perceived in comparison to each other. New York isn't a topic here, and this underscores that an individual's reality is largely regional. NY is ”The mecca” to everything on the Atlantic coast. That isnt how most of the rest of the nation views New York City...
People don't need NY's fashion nor media to set the trends because so much influential fashion and media are coming from elsewhere...
So I guess my point is, while the city hasn't declined, the popularity of the city has certainly decreased...
The fact New York successfully exports its culture and people want to imitate it is a sign of its power. Even recently you see cities naming neighborhoods in the Manhattan way, NoDo/SoDo is common. NIMBYs everywhere decry Manhattanization
It’s not like House or Gogo Music became mainstream like Punk or Hip Hop. LA has never created a genre like New York did.
Also in 2016 both Presidential candidates were from New York. Trumps whole gaggle were New York Elites.
Also at least in my lifetime NY and LA have always been 1A and 1B. I think I’m the last ~30 years LA has really slowed its ascent. I do think New York’s domestic decline has been masked by the simultaneous growth in America’s international profile. So I think it’s treading water than declining. Although on a longer time horizon (say if you’re 50 rather than 25) NYC probably has declined
Also where there is almost a dozen cities in absolute decline, a minor relative decline would be overlooked. Compared to sag Pittsburgh, Cleveland or Detroit.
Also of note, the NYT is become so much bigger than it was in say 1994. As local news declined random crap that happens in New York is now a national discussion
Last edited by btownboss4; 05-05-2023 at 06:52 AM..
During my lifetime, cities that have taken off and moved up a tier from where they were are Austin, Raleigh, Charlotte, Columbus, Indianapolis, Portland, Seattle, Las Vegas, Nashville, Oklahoma City, and Orlando. Cities that have faded and aren't as important as they once were include Youngstown, Scranton, Hartford, Rochester, Buffalo, and Peoria.
Coming at this from a non-hip hop pov, NYC feels similar to it always has. Probably has a better reputation than it did in the 80s honestly. The Disneyfication of the 90s really set the tone for it, but even here on the (South) East Coast, it remained a place to visit not necessarily move to. Beyond its media and cultural impact, I think its actual physical pull has been mostly limited to the BoWash area for a couple generations for average Americans.
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Originally Posted by Heel82
Coming at this from a non-hip hop pov, NYC feels similar to it always has. Probably has a better reputation than it did in the 80s honestly. The Disneyfication of the 90s really set the tone for it, but even here on the (South) East Coast, it remained a place to visit not necessarily move to. Beyond its media and cultural impact, I think its actual physical pull has been mostly limited to the BoWash area for a couple generations for average Americans.
And within NYC, Brooklyn has improved over the years.
Omaha has entered the “Great Plains cities gaining” discussion.. Des Moines too…
Yup. I was born in 1985 and both of these cities have changed dramatically in my life time. Both essentially having turned from somewhat forgotten backwaters, into thriving and surprisingly cosmopolitan places.
Nationally, I think Austin is the city that's made the biggest leap in status. When I was a kid it was kind of only known for being the capital of Texas, and the outlaw country music scene. You had to say "Austin, Texas" so people knew what town you were talking about.
Now it's a ubiquitous major city and cultural destination.
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Gained (+) relevance: Atlanta is the big one that I think. Not in any order, also: Austin, Dallas-Fort Worth, Houston, Seattle, Denver, Charlotte, Raleigh-Durham, Miami, Tampa, Orlando, Las Vegas, Phoenix.
Lost (-) relevance: New Orleans, Memphis, and St. Louis. Of the three, Memphis has had the largest relative decline over the past 30 years, by far. There are other large/major cities that I believe have lost relevance, but I am hesitant to include/list them here without doing some further research first.
Small/midsize cities gained (+) relevance: Boise, Reno, Savannah, Fargo, Sioux Falls, Huntsville, Asheville, Fayetteville AR, Greenville SC, all of the small Florida coastal cities: Pensacola, Daytona Beach, Melbourne/Brevard County, Sarasota/Bradenton, Fort Myers/Cape Coral, Port St. Lucie, Destin, Myrtle Beach, Gulf Shores AL
Small/midsize cities lost (-) relevance: Jackson MS, Shreveport LA, Montgomery AL, Peoria IL, Rockford IL, Flint MI, Saginaw MI, Youngstown OH, Scranton PA, Johnstown PA, Altoona PA, Charleston WV, Utica NY
Last edited by g500; 05-05-2023 at 08:37 AM..
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