Cincinnati vs. St. Louis (population, size, skyline, metro)
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It is important to point out that the vote was done 8 years ago when numbers were more supportive of the ban then. Also if I remember at about that time support was bumped a bit higher for some reason at that time, since at other times it has been a steady decline. It would be interesting to see views today on that and other social issues. My guess is both cities will be a bit more conservative than say Great Lakes Midwest cities.
yeah, I pointed out that it was 7 years ago and that the views have definitely changed for many people, but the point was that on this particular issue, Hamilton County, OH and STL city+county (this is the best way to compare the 2 cities) had about the same percentage of voters who were supportive of the ban. Around 56% for Hamilton County and around 58% for STL city+county.
cincinnati: smaller, more conservative, only bus transit, borders kentucky
st. louis: larger, more liberal, bus and rail transit, borders illinois
st. louis.
smtchll-- st. louis was the only jurisdiction in the state to vote against a constitutional ban on gay marriage. st. louis city is both democrat and liberal. it was the first city in the midwest to have a domestic partnership registry for same-sex couples, years before even chicago. it happens to be trapped in a conservative state, but the city itself is the only reason missouri didn't officially secede from the union during the civil war. there is a long history of very liberal sentiment in st. louis. cincinnati is almost exactly the opposite.
liberal, yes, but not one of the most liberal cities in the country like the poster was saying. If that were the case, then 47% of the population wouldn't have voted for the ban. And we often look at STL city+county, we almost never just look at the city by itself because only 319,000 people live there. When you combine city+county, 58% of voters were in support of the ban. 2 percentage points more than Hamilton County, OH where Cincy is located. So I'd say it leans more conservative on this particular issue, at least back in 2004...
I choose St. Louis over Cincy, of course, but I don't understand why politics keeps coming up. St. Louis is more democrat, but I don't think it's more liberal by a significant margin. They both seem moderate with a right lean. I'm speaking about the metro areas as a whole, not the cities by themselves
liberal, yes, but not one of the most liberal cities in the country like the poster was saying. If that were the case, then 47% of the population wouldn't have voted for the ban. And we often look at STL city+county, we almost never just look at the city by itself because only 319,000 people live there. When you combine city+county, 58% of voters were in support of the ban. 2 percentage points more than Hamilton County, OH where Cincy is located. So I'd say it leans more conservative on this particular issue, at least back in 2004...
I choose St. Louis over Cincy, of course, but I don't understand why politics keeps coming up. St. Louis is more democrat, but I don't think it's more liberal by a significant margin. They both seem moderate with a right lean. I'm speaking about the metro areas as a whole, not the cities by themselves
not exactly sure where you come up with a "right lean" for both. in 2008, st. louis city voted 84% for obama. suburban st. louis county (which does not even include the city) voted 60% in favor of obama. conversely, hamilton county, which includes the city of cincinnati, voted only 52% for obama. if anything, st. louis county has a left lean. the city has no lean at all, it is on the far, far left of the political spectrum. hamilton county/cincinnati are more ambiguous.
and the gay marriage vote isn't the only indicator of liberal/conservative. remember, california voters overturned gay marriage two years ago.
not exactly sure where you come up with a "right lean" for both. in 2008, st. louis city voted 84% for obama. suburban st. louis county (which does not even include the city) voted 60% in favor of obama. conversely, hamilton county, which includes the city of cincinnati, voted only 52% for obama. if anything, st. louis county has a left lean. the city has no lean at all, it is on the far, far left of the political spectrum. hamilton county/cincinnati are more ambiguous.
and the gay marriage vote isn't the only indicator of liberal/conservative. remember, california voters overturned gay marriage two years ago.
Political party doesn't indicate liberal vs conservative, as there are conservative Democrats and liberal Republicans. I think the gay marriage vote is one of the best insights into if a place is socially liberal or socially conservative. Socially, not fiscally. As you can see, the percentages for the gay marriage ban in St. Louis and Cincinnati don't correlate with the percentages of Democrats & Republicans, so I dont think looking at the number of Democrats vs Republican can tell you if a place is liberal or not. I mean, the county where Memphis is located voted 64% for Obama, but there's no way in hell that 64% of the people here are socially liberal.
When I see that St. Louis city+county voted 58% for the ban, I think there's a definite right lean (but still in the moderate zone). That doesn't even include the more conservative counties in the metro that voted even higher percentages in favor of the ban.
And California as a whole isn't a liberal state, but the liberal areas of the state voted against the ban. I think that vote is a much better indicator of liberal/conservative than simply looking at who voted Democrat and who voted Republican.
Cincinnati for me. More cosmopolitan, larger downtown, more large-scale neighborhoods, not isolated, better riverfront. St. Louis has a larger metro population b/c if you lived in that part of the country (SW Illinois, East Missouri), you might as well live in the St. Louis area. There isn't another substantial city for at least 230 miles in any direction. From Cincinnati, Columbus is 100 miles, Indianapolis a little over 100 and Dayton 45 miles, creating competition for Cincinnati. The Interstate 75 region between Dayton and Cincinnati is almost fully developed and rapidly growing into a full-fledged metroplex of 3.2 million. All things considered, Cincinnati has more traffic and feels busier and more of a hub than St. Louis.
cincinnati: smaller, more conservative, only bus transit, borders kentucky
st. louis: larger, more liberal, bus and rail transit, borders illinois
st. louis.
smtchll-- st. louis was the only jurisdiction in the state to vote against a constitutional ban on gay marriage. st. louis city is both democrat and liberal. it was the first city in the midwest to have a domestic partnership registry for same-sex couples, years before even chicago. it happens to be trapped in a conservative state, but the city itself is the only reason missouri didn't officially secede from the union during the civil war. there is a long history of very liberal sentiment in st. louis. cincinnati is almost exactly the opposite.
Anything that borders Illinois is a big negative. Lake Cumberland, Ky is more exciting than all of Illinois combined.
I thought this was about St. Louis and Cincinnati, not about Illinois, Kentucky, Indianapolis, Dayton, Columbus etc etc. Who cares about the other cities and states they're around. This is about what the cities themselves have to offer. The first post asked "Which city has the better architecture, layout, and neighborhood vibe?"
Cincinnati for me. More cosmopolitan, larger downtown, more large-scale neighborhoods, not isolated, better riverfront. St. Louis has a larger metro population b/c if you lived in that part of the country (SW Illinois, East Missouri), you might as well live in the St. Louis area. There isn't another substantial city for at least 230 miles in any direction. From Cincinnati, Columbus is 100 miles, Indianapolis a little over 100 and Dayton 45 miles, creating competition for Cincinnati. The Interstate 75 region between Dayton and Cincinnati is almost fully developed and rapidly growing into a full-fledged metroplex of 3.2 million. All things considered, Cincinnati has more traffic and feels busier and more of a hub than St. Louis.
most of this is false. st. louis has a larger downtown than cincinnati. st. louis has a larger city and metro population than cincinnati (cincinnati has fallen below 300,000). st. louis is more densely populated than cincinnati. not sure what you consider a "large-scale" neighborhood, but one would surmise that st. louis bests cincinnati in that department as well. cincinnati does not have any rail transit (yes, i know about the 2-mile streetcar that might happen); st. louis has a relatively extensive and very well used rail system. that's because st. louis is larger. cincinnati has two major league sports teams; st. louis has three. cincinnati feels quieter than st. louis. yes, cincinnati's airport is busier now. when twa was based in st. louis there was no comparison, stl was a much busier airport.
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St. Louis has a larger metro population b/c if you lived in that part of the country (SW Illinois, East Missouri), you might as well live in the St. Louis area. There isn't another substantial city for at least 230 miles in any direction. From Cincinnati, Columbus is 100 miles, Indianapolis a little over 100 and Dayton 45 miles, creating competition for Cincinnati.
what you said there makes absolutely no sense at all. the east coast cities are much closer together than ohio's cities, yet they retain varying populations of their own despite proximity. i think you are perhaps a little resentful that st. louis is, has been and will likely always be, a larger city than cincinnati.
Cincinnati for me. More cosmopolitan, larger downtown, more large-scale neighborhoods, not isolated, better riverfront. St. Louis has a larger metro population b/c if you lived in that part of the country (SW Illinois, East Missouri), you might as well live in the St. Louis area. There isn't another substantial city for at least 230 miles in any direction. From Cincinnati, Columbus is 100 miles, Indianapolis a little over 100 and Dayton 45 miles, creating competition for Cincinnati. The Interstate 75 region between Dayton and Cincinnati is almost fully developed and rapidly growing into a full-fledged metroplex of 3.2 million. All things considered, Cincinnati has more traffic and feels busier and more of a hub than St. Louis.
You do have a major point that I brought up in another thread.
St. Louis city and metro population maybe a little bit biger than Cincinnati respectively, and has nationally idenitifiable trademarks such as the Arch and Anheuser-Busch,
but A: St. Louis is kinda isolated. There really aren't any major urban areas for about a 5 hour drive from St. Louis. Whereas having three 1 million + population metro areas in less than two hours does give Cincinnnati a real edge in terms of supported major attractions (such as Kings Island for example) as well as being a very centrally located business center. (You are less than a full days drive from D.C., Atlanta as well as Chicago or Toronto.
Cincys riverfront I would have to say is more developed with parks, and now the banks, plus the towns on the other side of the river are actually nice and fun to go to (Covington and Newport both have attractions) East St. Louis is a wasteland that offer nothing.
The neighborhoods surrounding downtown Cincy have a bit more continuously intact blocks of 19th century rowhouses, although many are in serious disrepair.
Theres a definite Kentucky influence, you hear more of a drawl around Cincinnati, for this reason, in addition to the fact that it hasn't created a "brand" the way STL has, is why people think of Cincy as a provincial town. Its totally not true.
Plus those hills (STL does not have an equivalent to Mt. Adams), largest Oktoberfest, and skyline chili.
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