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The illustrate the extent of LA Metro's rail expansion plans over the next few decades, here are some maps showing the funded portions of the fully built-out LA Metro Rail System as planned under Measure M/2020 Long Range Transportation Plan: https://i.redd.it/n2fdel6rrw981.png
Compare this with the 2028 LA Metro Rail System if the Twenty-eight by '28 Initiative is fully implemented: https://i.redd.it/ntsd9t0wuw981.png
Regarding those maps, California had a $71 billion surplus last year (much of it unspent) and estimated $31 billion surplus this year. Metro is asking for billions to expedite projects and will likely get some amount of billions, although maybe not as much as asked. It will be enough to make the 2028 map a reality by 2030 or so. Not shown on the map are things like the Inglewood people mover, which is also likely to happen. Also billions in Metrolink and Union Station improvements. It’s pretty clear that LA will be near the top of the second tier in infrastructure. Whether or not anyone rides it or it remains as a safe place for transient drug addicts is yet to be determined. Metro also wants money to make it free so my guess is the latter.
Regarding those maps, California had a $71 billion surplus last year (much of it unspent) and estimated $31 billion surplus this year. Metro is asking for billions to expedite projects and will likely get some amount of billions, although maybe not as much as asked. It will be enough to make the 2028 map a reality by 2030 or so. Not shown on the map are things like the Inglewood people mover, which is also likely to happen. Also billions in Metrolink and Union Station improvements. It’s pretty clear that LA will be near the top of the second tier in infrastructure. Whether or not anyone rides it or it remains as a safe place for transient drug addicts is yet to be determined. Metro also wants money to make it free so my guess is the latter.
I deliberately left out strategic unfunded projects like the D Line extension to the sea since there's no guarantee they will get built since they don't have or aren't planned to have any funding from current funding sources (mainly revenue from Measures R and M), plus some of the routings for the unfunded projects are very wonky and unclear at the moment. If there's a new transit tax measure that's passed within the next 4-8 years, then perhaps these unfunded projects will see the light of day, but first and foremost any new possible sales tax revenues will go to accelerating the projects already on the Measure M master plan list.
Personal opinion though, even with just the master plan rail system from Measure M would have Chicago Loop, BART, or Washington Metro beat, even if most of it would be light rail.
The "but" being that they built it through the areas easiest to access and not especially where people want to go. That's my understanding anyway. I've ridden it and like it a lot, but it has one of the lowest ridership levels per mile in the US.
I dont really think the problem is where it goes, but mainly that its extremely easy to navigate DFW by car, so much so that by the time that you 'drive' to a park&ride, wait for the train, take the train, arrive at your destination, walk / bike / uber / whatever to your destination, you aren't really saving any time.
Some of the trains move pretty well.. ..Others move very slow.. ..probably would help if it were all HRT but DFW is such a sprawly metro that until more infill and density uprises around the transit stations themselves, its ridership will probably remain relatively low.
thie chief knock on MARTA rapid transit closely mirrors the chief knock against the rapid transit system SEPTA operates in Philadelphia:
It's basically a "backbone" system consisting of an east-west and a north-south spine line, with the former having a short spur on its west side and the latter splitting in two south of the city center, with one branch going to the airport.
Yeah, but the strength of Philly public transportation is commuter rail, not subway. It keeps cars owned by suburbanites out of Center City. With three train stations, you can get off fairly close to an awful lot of Center City.
And the branch going to the airport is commuter rail, not subway. I occasionally grumble about the 30 minute service interval.
Subway and commuter rail aren't very well integrated The PATCO line into New Jersey isn't integrated either and feels like it was bolted on as an afterthought.
Still, even with the warts, it's one of the better mass transit systems in the United States.
Yeah, but the strength of Philly public transportation is commuter rail, not subway. It keeps cars owned by suburbanites out of Center City. With three train stations, you can get off fairly close to an awful lot of Center City.
And the branch going to the airport is commuter rail, not subway. I occasionally grumble about the 30 minute service interval.
Subway and commuter rail aren't very well integrated The PATCO line into New Jersey isn't integrated either and feels like it was bolted on as an afterthought.
Still, even with the warts, it's one of the better mass transit systems in the United States.
I agree with this.
Philly's vast rail network may be old and clunky at times, but it does one major job: it puts a rail station within a short walk, drive or bike ride of the vast majority of metro residents in Philly's far-flung region. This allows most everyone a reasonably quick zip into Center City or other close-in neighborhoods and suburbs (ie: Glenside, Manayunk or University City), either via local or often express rush-hour service. The vastness and effectiveness of the overall network have allowed Philly to save on oft-urban killing freeway expansion -- yes, Philly has the smallest and least developed expressway network per capita (for a city its size) of anyplace -- and I am totally fine with that.
While I don't think connectivity is perfect, it's not horrible. Esp connections btw the Norristown HS line and Reg Rail along with the Broad Street subway with the trunk-line north (ex-Reading) regional rail at Fern Rock terminal... Yes, there should be a super North Philly station connecting all the subway/regional rail and Amtrak passing through that area; the Norristown HS line should have a joint-connector station with the Paoli-Thorndale Reg Rail and the 10 Trolley should be extended a few blocks from 63rd & Malvern to the Paoli-Thorndale Reg Rail line at Overbrook station .... among others.
... and yes frequency of the Airport Line as well as close-in, w/in City RR routes, like the 2 Chestnut Hills, should be boosted to an every-15 minute frequency base schedule.
I’m kind of surprised Atlanta is ahead of LA to be honest
The thread started in 2009 from pages 1 to 9. Ended in 2009. Then restarted in Jan 2022 on page 9.
Back in 2009, Atlanta was likely the clearer forerunner. But since then, a lot of cities have been building more and more especially LA, Seattle, Denver, Miami, San Diego, Dallas, even Phoenix. Not saying they beat Atlanta, but there has been a lot.
LA metro agency is probably the most aggressive area in the nation when it comes to public transit rail construction and funding. Seattle, too.
In November 2008 LA county voters voted 2/3 supermajority to increase sales tax to fund transit projects. 35% of that is new capital like subways and light rail. Others goes to bus system, reduce fairs,, new train and bus replacement, commuter train,, roads and highway improvements and 15% for cities in the county. In 2016, a second tax increase to fund more with similar percentages for decades. The 2 taxes along with previous ones gives LA roughly $2 billion a year for transit of which 35% goes to New capital. LA is able to accomplish a lot of new multiple projects at once.
Since 2008, LA opened East LA to Downtown LA 6 station extension. There is the 17 station expo line from Santa Monica to Downtown LA. The 7 foothill line extension from Pasadena to Azusa.
Currently the Crenshaw expo to LAX line opens this year 2022and likely the 3 station tunnel Regional connector under Downtown LA that connects 3 different lines to 2 really long lines in 2022. And the wilshire subway.7 stop extension opening in stages by 2028. The LAX people mover in 2024 will connect the Crenshaw LAX metro to airport terminals. A second foothill extension from Azusa to Pomona is currently under construction expected to complete by 2025.
With many lines current lines nearly complete, new lines are currently in different phases of development. The Van nuys line is likely ready for physical construction, east LA to Whittier extension, the first phase of the orange county line to Downtown will likely start in following years.
The Sepulveda subway is still years away, still deciding whether it should be a monorail or hot. And routes either tunnel or above ground following the freeway.
I dont think many LA locals know what's going on. They don't care. They want it built, so others can ride it while they enjoy less crowded streets for themselves. It doesn't work that way.
I dont know what Atlanta is doing. It seems to be at odds with some adjacent counties to bring Marta there.
The thread started in 2009 from pages 1 to 9. Ended in 2009. Then restarted in Jan 2022 on page 9.
(summary of LA's massive expansion of rail transit, much of which occurred between the time this thread died and the time it was resuscitated, snipped)
I dont think many LA locals know what's going on. They don't care. They want it built, so others can ride it while they enjoy less crowded streets for themselves. It doesn't work that way.
I dont know what Atlanta is doing. It seems to be at odds with some adjacent counties to bring Marta there.
Several counties that had been hostile to MARTA extending into them appear at least willing to consider bringing the trains in. But none of them have actually said yes yet.
The thread started in 2009 from pages 1 to 9. Ended in 2009. Then restarted in Jan 2022 on page 9.
Back in 2009, Atlanta was likely the clearer forerunner. But since then, a lot of cities have been building more and more especially LA, Seattle, Denver, Miami, San Diego, Dallas, even Phoenix. Not saying they beat Atlanta, but there has been a lot.
LA metro agency is probably the most aggressive area in the nation when it comes to public transit rail construction and funding. Seattle, too.
In November 2008 LA county voters voted 2/3 supermajority to increase sales tax to fund transit projects. 35% of that is new capital like subways and light rail. Others goes to bus system, reduce fairs,, new train and bus replacement, commuter train,, roads and highway improvements and 15% for cities in the county. In 2016, a second tax increase to fund more with similar percentages for decades. The 2 taxes along with previous ones gives LA roughly $2 billion a year for transit of which 35% goes to New capital. LA is able to accomplish a lot of new multiple projects at once.
Since 2008, LA opened East LA to Downtown LA 6 station extension. There is the 17 station expo line from Santa Monica to Downtown LA. The 7 foothill line extension from Pasadena to Azusa.
Currently the Crenshaw expo to LAX line opens this year 2022and likely the 3 station tunnel Regional connector under Downtown LA that connects 3 different lines to 2 really long lines in 2022. And the wilshire subway.7 stop extension opening in stages by 2028. The LAX people mover in 2024 will connect the Crenshaw LAX metro to airport terminals. A second foothill extension from Azusa to Pomona is currently under construction expected to complete by 2025.
With many lines current lines nearly complete, new lines are currently in different phases of development. The Van nuys line is likely ready for physical construction, east LA to Whittier extension, the first phase of the orange county line to Downtown will likely start in following years.
The Sepulveda subway is still years away, still deciding whether it should be a monorail or hot. And routes either tunnel or above ground following the freeway.
I dont think many LA locals know what's going on. They don't care. They want it built, so others can ride it while they enjoy less crowded streets for themselves. It doesn't work that way.
I dont know what Atlanta is doing. It seems to be at odds with some adjacent counties to bring Marta there.
I do think Angelenos can become actively in favor of using rail transit, and not just merely funding it in hopes of others taking it will reduce car congestion. Metro has up to ~350 miles of rail eventually planned for buildout in LA county when including strategic unfunded rail projects, but that depends on again on the age-old problem: lack of funding, which demands more future tax measures that are tied directly to Angelenos perceiving the rail network is useable and convenient enough. That depends of course, on more rail expansions taking place, far more than only the funded planned projects under full Measure-M buildout.
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