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While I would easily choose to live in Phoenix over Dallas for my own reasons, I would be very careful to avoid simplifying Dallas as some posters are doing. The city now resists quick judgments---more than it would seem at first sight. It did, after all, decisively vote for Obama in 2008 making the conservative tag more problematic (the suburbs are very conservative though). Phoenix, regardless of what kind of Republicanism prevails, did vote for McCain.
And on the first page of the Arts section of the NY Times today, in extensive coverage of the Dee and Charles Wyly Theater and the Margot and Bill Winspear Opera House opening.. the two together "give the area the cultural stature Dallas has long been craving."
I wish Phoenix would be getting press for this kind of event.
It will but you have to realize that most of our growth occurred in the last 19 years. It's going to take time. We were not even compared to Dallas 20 years ago. Dallas has been a large city for the last 40-50 years. You can't compare the two. Dallas is ahead of us with regard to development. Culturally speaking, Dallas is what it is...a Southern Evangelical city regardless of it's economic impact. I know people in Dallas are trying to avoid that label. What's funny is Atlanta embraces its Southern roots but Dallas doesn't. I don't know why Dallas residents are so ashamed of it. They can't change who they are. It's a part of their identity and will always be the case.
Dallas voted for George W Bush in 2004 because he is a favorite son of Dallas of sorts. Likewise, this city wasn't going to turn its back on McCain. That is a weak point. Furthermore, not all Republicans are alike. John McCain is one of the more liberal Republicans and is a moderate whereas as Bush is a strong conservative which makes the conservative labeling of Arizona even more weak. I think you are forgetting that McCain became an Independent for a which is a factual representation of his polital views being less conservative. Arizona also voted Bill Clinton in 1996 whereas Dallas and Texas voted for Bob Dole. This was a time in which Clinton was one of the most popular Presidents of all time and Dallas still voted for Dole. The Obama vote is meaningless because Arizona would have done the same had it been anyone but McCain. The country was opposed to the Bush legacy and wanted change but Arizona couldn't turn its back on one of its own.
Last edited by azriverfan.; 10-15-2009 at 05:21 PM..
It will but you have to realize that most of our growth occurred in the last 19 years. It's going to take time. We were not even compared to Dallas 20 years ago. Dallas has been a large city for the last 40-50 years. You can't compare the two. Dallas is ahead of us with regard to development. Culturally speaking, Dallas is what it is...a Southern Evangelical city regardless of it's economic impact. I know people in Dallas are trying to avoid that label. What's funny is Atlanta embraces its Southern roots but Dallas doesn't. I don't know why Dallas residents are so ashamed of it. They can't change who they are. It's a part of their identity and will always be the case.
Dallas voted for George W Bush in 2004 because he is a favorite son of Dallas of sorts. Likewise, this city wasn't going to turn its back on McCain. That is a weak point. Furthermore, not all Republicans are alike. John McCain is one of the more liberal Republicans and is a moderate whereas as Bush is a strong conservative which makes the conservative labeling of Arizona even more weak. I think you are forgetting that McCain became an Independent for a which is a factual representation of his polital views being less conservative. Arizona also voted Bill Clinton in 1996 whereas Dallas and Texas voted for Bob Dole. This was a time in which Clinton was one of the most popular Presidents of all time and Dallas still voted for Dole. The Obama vote is meaningless because Arizona would have done the same had it been anyone but McCain. The country was opposed to the Bush legacy and wanted change but Arizona couldn't turn its back on one of its own.
Your analysis over and over has two problems
1) Youre oversimplifying Dallas. You cant seem to accept that the area isnt the same everywhere you go.
2) Dallas (the city and the DFW metroplex) is changing increadably fast. This change is happening faster than just about any other metro area. Dallas isnt the same as it was 10 years ago. DFW has added more residents than any other MSA since 2000 by raw number. Dont you think with that growth that change is happening at a rather fast pace? Thats the arguement you made for Phoenix earlier in the thread. Dallas proper now has more hispanics than any other race and that number is going to continue to climb. Traditionally in Texas, all the people from other countries went to Houston. Now, DFW has almost as many foreign residents as Houston.
If all of Dallas were the way you describe, there sure are alot of things going on that are contradictary. You also cant say that just because a person is Christian, they are a bible-thumping, anti-gay, closed-minded.
Take a look at our mayor, Tom Leppert. He is a republican and a christian, yet he has done many things to try to attract more gays to come to Dallas. Dallas also has a huge amount of gay ammenities. I dont doubt there are some closed minded people here, there are everywhere, but are these really characteristics of a place that is as backward as you say it is?
Leppert touts Dallas as gay destination (http://www.dallasvoice.com/artman/publish/printer_8685.php - broken link)
Dallas has one of the best gay scenes I have ever experienced. So much fun going out there! The uptown/oaklawn area seems to be very artsy and gay friendly.
I would pick Dallas over Phoenix in a heartbeat, to me, Dallas has the better scenery, I like the plains and more greenery, the weather is really hot in both cities so I'll take Dallas' heat.
Dallas feels more like a real big city than Phoenix does and the downtown is way better. My favorite baseball team also plays in Arlington so that is a plus. The houses are cheaper in Dallas and are alot more attractive.
Good LORD. The last few pages that described Dallas folks, IS NOT DALLAS. The city has its problems, but disregard the couple of the Phoenix posters are painting Phoenix like it's some sort of Eutopia or Eden and Dallas is Mordor or Hell on Earth. I know everyone has their opinion. But it turns into something else when you just outright bash the place. Dallas is not nearly what people are describing. Dallas has a fast growing international and diverse population that is INTEGRATING.
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Lastly, it's not about what Dallas is near. Dallas is IN the Bible Belt. It's located IN a state that was a Confederate state in the U.S. Civil War. It is IN the South. I'm sorry but you are not going to achieve this progressive and liberal international city when the culture in Dallas is still very old school Southern. I will admit the economy is strong in Dallas and that has attracted people. A lot of immigrants moved there for work and not necessarily because they feel Dallas is such a warm and tolerant place toward immigrants. A lot of people are feeling forced to move to Dallas because of the weak economy but I doubt they would move there given the choice to stay where they were.
We get it. You don't like the South. You don't like Dallas. Move on.
Good LORD. The last few pages that described Dallas folks, IS NOT DALLAS. The city has its problems, but disregard the couple of the Phoenix posters are painting Phoenix like it's some sort of Eutopia or Eden and Dallas is Mordor or Hell on Earth. I know everyone has their opinion. But it turns into something else when you just outright bash the place. Dallas is not nearly what people are describing. Dallas has a fast growing international and diverse population that is INTEGRATING.
We get it. You don't like the South. You don't like Dallas. Move on.
I think the problem is that this post was orignially in the Phoenix forum. The mods must haved moved it. Because it was in the Phoenix forum, there were alot of people trash talking Dallas just so Phoenix would look better in comparrision. Its the only explanation because some of these posters are either making stuff up, havent really explored the place, or just hate it so much they would say anything to trash it. Some posters stubbornly believe that places never change and because Dallas was part of the confederacy, that its still such a backward place. Its all bulls**t, but saying this stuff makes Phoenix look better, so they say it.
I've lived in both Texas (Dallas and Austin) and Arizona. I pretty fond of Dallas, Houston, Austin, and San Antonio (I've never spent much time in El Paso). Texas as a whole (in the cities) is pretty gay-friendly. Having said that (and speaking from experience), I certainly feel that the people as a whole (younger AND older generations) are much more laid-back and gay-friendly in Arizona than they are in Texas.
I've lived in both Texas (Dallas and Austin) and Arizona. I pretty fond of Dallas, Houston, Austin, and San Antonio (I've never spent much time in El Paso). Texas as a whole (in the cities) is pretty gay-friendly. Having said that (and speaking from experience), I certainly feel that the people as a whole (younger AND older generations) are much more laid-back and gay-friendly in Arizona than they are in Texas.
Now thats an unbiased and fair analysis of the places. I certainly agree that Arizona (and Phoenix) are more laid back than Texas (and Dallas).
Dallas has one of the best gay scenes I have ever experienced. So much fun going out there! The uptown/oaklawn area seems to be very artsy and gay friendly.
Now thats an unbiased and fair analysis of the places. I certainly agree that Arizona (and Phoenix) are more laid back than Texas (and Dallas).
The West Coast as a whole is more laid-back than Texas no matter what city it is, and that's including places like LA and SF. Speaking more about the people than the actual cities themselves.
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