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As I mentioned earlier in this thread, I was born and raised in DFW and lived there for 35 years prior to recently moving to Phoenix. I only mention this again for those that missed it a couple pages back.
I assume you've never been to Austin or San Antonio. Austin is a 3 hour drive and San Antonio a four, both less than the time it takes to drive to Las Vegas from Phoenix. Further more, I can't recall anyone mentioning a quick road trip to either of those cities.
That being said, the lack of places within a short drive did factor into our decision to move to Phoenix. You can only do so many trips to Austin or San Antonio before they get old.
My eyes also bugged out when I saw someone buying liquor at my local grocery store and the aisle of it at my local Costco. I won't miss having to go to a liquor store to buy my booze. The city I grew up in only recently allowed the sale of beer and wine in 2008.
Ive been to San Antonio and Austin many times. Dallas to San Antonio is 250 miles. Phoenix to Las Vegas is 300 miles. I wouldn't say San Antonio is that much closer. And there is far more to do in Las Vegas than San Antonio to say the least. I've had those monster margaritas at the Naked Iguana and Old Mexican Cafe on the Riverwalk. Anyway, I feel Phoenix has more to do than San Antonio or Austin. The only thing San Antonio has is the River Walk. And the only thing Austin has is 6th street. The Riverwalk is just a mall on top of an artificial river, it's incredibly hyped. It doesn't really have nightlife. It's has a lot of Mexican restaurants that you can drink at but not lounges, clubs or unique restaurants. It has a lot of generic chains like Hooters, an Olive Garden, Hard Rock Cafe and a movie theatre etc. Old Town Scottsdale is more fun than the Riverwalk in my opinion because Old Town is more contemporary, unique and adult oriented. The only thing Austin has is 6th street and it's hyped because it's the only real college campus in the entire state of Texas. Everyone in Texas boasts about it but that's because none of the universities in Texas truly boast an impressive college campus like UT Austin. And Austin doesn't really have anything that Tempe lacks. I think 6th street in Austin is overrated and I personally think Mill avenue in Tempe is nicer. For me, I would have no reason to go to Austin or San Antonio because neither city really has anything that Phoenix doesn't already possess....okay Sea World...I'll give you that
Last edited by azriverfan.; 10-14-2009 at 07:40 PM..
That is true that Dallas has more minorities. But the difference in Dallas is that you will see a group of Hindus in one corner of a bar, a group of Blacks in one corner of the bar and a group of Asians in another corner. In Phoenix, you will see groups at happy hour with Asians, Hindus, Hispanics, and Whites all hanging out with each. That is the key difference between Dallas and Phoenix. You also didn't see interracial dating there. In Phoenix I have White friends who are dating Indian girls and Black guys with white girlfriends etc. That's just normal here. In Dallas, I felt like the Whites didn't want to hang out with minorities and thus minorities formed these isolated groups among themselves. I think the closer you move to the coasts, the more intergrated minorities become
Im not so sure what happened to you when you were in Dallas, but the Dallas you keep talking about isnt the one I know.
You dont see interracial dating? Really? Ive met many different interracial couples since Ive been here. My boss and one of my co-workers are in interracial relationships.
Whites dont want to hang out with minorities? Thats simply not true. Most people here dont care.
The closer you move to the coasts? Tell that to the people in Chicago.
Dallas is not segregated nearly to the degree of what youre saying. If it was I would never be happy here. One of the things that I like about it is that its an international city. I like Phoenix, but its not really a very international place. It might not be international like LA, but they have most of the same international ammenities, just not as many of them.
Im not so sure what happened to you when you were in Dallas, but the Dallas you keep talking about isnt the one I know.
You dont see interracial dating? Really? Ive met many different interracial couples since Ive been here. My boss and one of my co-workers are in interracial relationships.
Whites dont want to hang out with minorities? Thats simply not true. Most people here dont care.
The closer you move to the coasts? Tell that to the people in Chicago.
Dallas is not segregated nearly to the degree of what youre saying. If it was I would never be happy here. One of the things that I like about it is that its an international city. I like Phoenix, but its not really a very international place. It might not be international like LA, but they have most of the same international ammenities, just not as many of them.
Dallas is not the place you keep describing.
Likewise, I never got the impression that Dallas was an "international city" It's a Southern and Evangelical city and that's a fact whether you choose to acknowledge that. I know you want to think it's on the west coast but the reality is Dallas is less than 200 miles from the Oklahoma and Arkansas border. It has 1.5 million more people than Phoenix so it wouldn't strike my why it has more minorities but that doesn't make it an international city. There are large churches on every corner and the Evangelical culture is strong there which takes away from any liberal and tolerant society that embraces diversity. I think you are contriving Dallas and making it appear the way you want it to appear because you probably moved there for work like many people in this economy.
I recently visited Dallas from Georgia and was very pleasantly surprised with the diversity there and the lack of blatant racism you even see in Atlanta. The night spots we went to literally had all races hanging out having a good time. In Atlanta there are a lot of bars for specific groups. We did not see any of that in Dallas. I also felt Dallas was a lot more fast paced and progressive than I had imagined it being. If it is stuck in the middle of the bible belt I certainly didnt feel like it was anything near what you see in the southeast, it has more of a midwestern feel to it than anything. Overall, I give Dallas a big thumbs up and the investment in the arts and infrastructure the city is doing now is amazing!
Likewise, I never got the impression that Dallas was an "international city" It's a Southern and Evangelical city and that's a fact whether you choose to acknowledge that. I know you want to think it's on the west coast but the reality is Dallas is less than 200 miles from the Oklahoma and Arkansas border. It has 1.5 million more people than Phoenix so it wouldn't strike my why it has more minorities but that doesn't make it an international city. There are large churches on every corner and the Evangelical culture is strong there which takes away from any liberal and tolerant society that embraces diversity. I think you are contriving Dallas and making it appear the way you want it to appear because you probably moved there for work like many people in this economy.
I think that you are making Dallas appear the way you want it to because Im guessing you didnt enjoy your time there. I dont know when you lived in Dallas, but Im not making this up. I have not encountered anything like what you are saying. Yes, there are alot of churches here, so what? Lots of churches doesnt equal racism and segregation which is what you are saying Dallas is, yet I find lots of diversity in my neighborhood and in Dallas. DFW has the 3rd largest Mexican, 5th largest Salvadorian, 6th largest Korean, and (projected for the 2010 census) the 5th largest Indian communities in the US. Thats a big deal for me because when I left LA, I didnt want to leave the international side of things.
Dallas is an international city. Its not the most international city, but it is an international city. I work for the airlines and we always say that you can judge how international a city is by the destinations served at the airport. DFW serves 37 international destinations, 11 long haul. PHX serves 15, 1 long haul.
If you dont want to use that method how about this one:
You put alot of stock into what a city is near, but I dont think you can use proximity as a way of telling something about a city. These places need to stand up on their own.
I dont think Dallas is the West Coast or like it, but its far from the city youre describing. I dont see why you need to tear Dallas down to build Phoenix up. Phoenix should stand on its own.
I think that you are making Dallas appear the way you want it to because Im guessing you didnt enjoy your time there. I dont know when you lived in Dallas, but Im not making this up. I have not encountered anything like what you are saying. Yes, there are alot of churches here, so what? Lots of churches doesnt equal racism and segregation which is what you are saying Dallas is, yet I find lots of diversity in my neighborhood and in Dallas. DFW has the 3rd largest Mexican, 5th largest Salvadorian, 6th largest Korean, and (projected for the 2010 census) the 5th largest Indian communities in the US. Thats a big deal for me because when I left LA, I didnt want to leave the international side of things.
Dallas is an international city. Its not the most international city, but it is an international city. I work for the airlines and we always say that you can judge how international a city is by the destinations served at the airport. DFW serves 37 international destinations, 11 long haul. PHX serves 15, 1 long haul.
If you dont want to use that method how about this one:
You put alot of stock into what a city is near, but I dont think you can use proximity as a way of telling something about a city. These places need to stand up on their own.
I dont think Dallas is the West Coast or like it, but its far from the city youre describing. I dont see why you need to tear Dallas down to build Phoenix up. Phoenix should stand on its own.
You have never lived in Phoenix. I've lived in Dallas. How can you say that Phoenix doesn't have an "international feel" when you haven't lived here? I live in Chandler. I don't feel any part of Dallas has any more of an "international" feel than Chandler. And I'm realistic. I know that Chandler isn't San Francisco but I know Dallas isn't either. And your airline example is poor because Dallas deliberately created DFW before it had a large multicultural population. At the time, there really wasn't a hub in the central part of the country outside of Chicago so Dallas was progressive and built the airport; it wasn't a result of having such a large international population that they felt obligated to build one. Not only that, Dallas has 3 airports including an airport in Ft. Worth. Do you really think Ft. Worth deserves its own airport? The Dallas metro built the airports to stir it's own economy not as a result of demand. Many of those international flights are not a result of Dallas residents alone but due to a larger demograhic that Dallas serves. DFW serves a large area for international flights that goes beyond the Dallas metro including the Austin, Oklahoma City, Tulsa, Little Rock and Shreveport populations. Our airport pretty much serves Phoenix and Tucson. Do you really think Phoenix couldn't meed the demand of having more international flights? There is much more to having an international airport than simple demand. The city has to agree to build one and finance it. We are so close to LA that our city didn't feel it was worth building one.
Lastly, it's not about what Dallas is near. Dallas is IN the Bible Belt. It's located IN a state that was a Confederate state in the U.S. Civil War. It is IN the South. I'm sorry but you are not going to achieve this progressive and liberal international city when the culture in Dallas is still very old school Southern. I will admit the economy is strong in Dallas and that has attracted people. A lot of immigrants moved there for work and not necessarily because they feel Dallas is such a warm and tolerant place toward immigrants. A lot of people are feeling forced to move to Dallas because of the weak economy but I doubt they would move there given the choice to stay where they were.
Last edited by azriverfan.; 10-14-2009 at 11:47 PM..
You have never lived in Phoenix. I've lived in Dallas. How can you say that Phoenix doesn't have an "international feel" when you haven't lived here? I live in Chandler. I don't feel any part of Dallas has any more of an "international" feel than Chandler. And I'm realistic. I know that Chandler isn't San Francisco but I know Dallas isn't either. And your airline example is poor because Dallas deliberately created DFW before it had a large multicultural population. At the time, there really wasn't a hub in the central part of the country outside of Chicago so Dallas was progressive and built the airport; it wasn't a result of having such a large international population that they felt obligated to build one. Not only that, Dallas has 3 airports including an airport in Ft. Worth. Do you really think Ft. Worth deserves its own airport? The Dallas metro built the airports to stir it's own economy not as a result of demand. Many of those international flights are not a result of Dallas residents alone but due to a larger demograhic that Dallas serves. DFW serves a large area for international flights that goes beyond the Dallas metro including the Austin, Oklahoma City, Tulsa, Little Rock and Shreveport populations. Our airport pretty much serves Phoenix and Tucson. Do you really think Phoenix couldn't meed the demand of having more international flights? There is much more to having an international airport than simple demand. The city has to agree to build one and finance it. We are so close to LA that our city didn't feel it was worth building one.
Lastly, it's not about what Dallas is near. Dallas is IN the Bible Belt. It's located IN a state that was a Confederate state in the U.S. Civil War. It is IN the South. I'm sorry but you are not going to achieve this progressive and liberal international city when the culture in Dallas is still very old school Southern. I will admit the economy is strong in Dallas and that has attracted people. A lot of immigrants moved there for work and not necessarily because they feel Dallas is such a warm and tolerant place toward immigrants. A lot of people are feeling forced to move to Dallas because of the weak economy but I doubt they would move there given the choice to stay where they were.
I havent lived in Phoeinx, but I have been there many times. I have good friends who Ahwatukee who I visit about 2 times a year. I also have done work at SkyHarbor and US Airways HQ.
About the airlines thing, PHX could maybe support one more international long haul flight. Other than that, no I dont think PHX could meet the demand. I do this for a living, so its not something Im unsure of. DFW has alot (and I do mean alot) more international O&D than does PHX. Both airports have the most O&D to Latin America. PHX has about 500,000 O&D passengers to Latin America, DFW has about 1.6 million per year. O&D means orign and destination. This is not connecting traffic. Also if you want to gage it better look at the foreign carriers (and not US Airways and American who have hubs at these places). PHX has British Airways, Air Canada, and Areomexico, DFW has British Airways, Lufthansa, KLM, Mexicana, Air Canada, TACA, and Korean Air.
As far as being more international, Im sorry dude, but DFW is way more international by any way you want to measure it. Neither are LA, Chicago, SF, NYC, or even Houston, but DFW is more international than Metro Phoenix. There isnt one measurement out there that would show Phoenix as being more international.
Sure there are alot of churches here, but I dont care. Of everyone Ive met, no one has asked me anything church, religion, or politics related. Im not bothered if other people want to go to church.
Im not going to argue about the progressiveness, but believe it there are alot of people here who are not conservative, who are not right-wing christians, who are gay, etc.
I dont want any of this to come off like im knocking Phoenix. I really like the place, but I like it for what it is. A beautiful city in the middle of the desert with lots of good scenery and friendly people. I dont like Phoenix because its international the same way I dont like Dallas because its Jewish (if that makes sense).
Im sorry dude, but you are wrong about Dallas.
Last edited by Cowboys fan in Houston; 10-15-2009 at 07:46 AM..
I recently visited Dallas from Georgia and was very pleasantly surprised with the diversity there and the lack of blatant racism you even see in Atlanta. The night spots we went to literally had all races hanging out having a good time. In Atlanta there are a lot of bars for specific groups. We did not see any of that in Dallas. I also felt Dallas was a lot more fast paced and progressive than I had imagined it being. If it is stuck in the middle of the bible belt I certainly didnt feel like it was anything near what you see in the southeast, it has more of a midwestern feel to it than anything. Overall, I give Dallas a big thumbs up and the investment in the arts and infrastructure the city is doing now is amazing!
Oh stop that, youre going to ruin azriverfan's tirade.
This is the Dallas I know. Beyond there being alot of churches, the Dallas he is describing is not at all the Dallas I live in. Im not halucinating or making that up.
While I would easily choose to live in Phoenix over Dallas for my own reasons, I would be very careful to avoid simplifying Dallas as some posters are doing. The city now resists quick judgments---more than it would seem at first sight. It did, after all, decisively vote for Obama in 2008 making the conservative tag more problematic (the suburbs are very conservative though). Phoenix, regardless of what kind of Republicanism prevails, did vote for McCain.
And on the first page of the Arts section of the NY Times today, in extensive coverage of the Dee and Charles Wyly Theater and the Margot and Bill Winspear Opera House opening.. the two together "give the area the cultural stature Dallas has long been craving."
I wish Phoenix would be getting press for this kind of event.
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