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I live in the oldest neighborhood in Northwest Philly, Germantown.
Only two of stevielake's five Street Views are from a Northwest Philly neighborhood, and those two are from the same one: Andorra, the northernmost part of Roxborough, on the other side of the Wissahickon Creek valley. That neighborhood is very much suburban in character.
So are the neighborhoods depicted in views 1 and 5. Those two are in Northeast Philadelphia, the last part of the city to get fully built out, sometime in the 1970s.
View 1 is in Bustleton, a suburban neighborhood that grew out of an old country crossroads in the Far Northeast.
View 5 is in the neighborhood to Bustleton's north, Somerton, the neighborhood at the northwest corner of Northeast Philadelphia. Where Chestnut Hill and Mt. Airy are affluent, and Andorra almost as affluent, the Northeast in general is the bastion of the middle-middle class — and it's also the part of the city where immigrants from abroad are settling first now. Most of those new immigrants live in its older parts, south of Cottman Avenue in the Lower Northeast, but Somerton and Bustleton have a notable concentration of Russian emigres, who have lived up that way for some time now. Center City residents especially look down their noses at the Northeast, and some longtime Northeast residents used to boast about never having gone into the city center.
View 4 is in a neighborhood at the very top of North Philadelphia, East Oak Lane. This is perhaps the city's best-kept secret: an affluent neighborhood of large freestanding Colonials, Dutch Colonials, and Tudors built between roughly 1900 and 1930. And all of those affluent residents are African-American.
I saw no need to give a neighborhood name to -- stevielake's streetviews. That was his job. I merely gave the reference point as Suburban Northwest Philly. If i said just Far North Philly? That would be sufficiant to the thread and my comment.
My Westside Chicago neighborhood example streetviews on one neighborhood previously I highlighted here. Was a AVERAGE NEIGHBORHOOD and not a less common example of the city of Chicago. I as the poster was respondible to tack a neighborhood nane to it and -- stevie again for his. My previous streetview from that was a Northside example neighborhood highlighted by me.
I gave a neighborhood name of each once in both post as the poster. But AVERAGE and COMMON HOUSING Northside and Westside neighborhood would have been sufficiant. Once I say Northwest side or Southwest side? It gets more liquid in borders. a Near West or Farther West side could be a added licstion detail.
I chose the neighborhoods I did for being AVERAGE old-stock Chicago common housing. Not wealthier ones that are not the most common. I could have chose a Edison Park of Chicago (many city workers live), but it is more suburban late 50s 60s area that most does not follow a more common Chicago grid with alleys and average city lot-size homes represented.
I kept "average" as my main reason to use those 2 neighborhoods in separate post. One being mostly Hispanic still has the old-stock housing with a added ethnic touch.
These were Chicago's common housing it chose for its masses in older eras over tighter connected rows by far as a Philly average is more likely to be.
I saw no need to give a neighborhood name to -- stevielake's streetviews. That was his job. I merely gave the reference point as Suburban Northwest Philly. If i said just Far North Philly? That would be sufficiant to the thread and my comment.
One reason I drilled down to the individual neighborhood level is because there's a great deal of variation in the house types, ages, and appearance of blocks in the broad geographical divisions of Northeast and Northwest Philadelphia — greater variation even than you'd find in West or South Philadelphia. (Southwest Philadelphia lies somewhere between South and Northwest Philly in variance; it may be on a par with the Northeast.)
Those Andorra blocks, for instance, look nothing like the blocks dominated by rowhouses and twins around Roxborough's business district.
One section of Mount Airy has nothing but 1920s working-class rowhouses, but if you head six blocks north of it, you're in a lushly wooded neighborhood of freestanding Colonials that's much more affluent. Head east of this area, cross Stenton Avenue (about six blocks east of this second area), and you will think you had entered the part of Northeast Philadelphia that was developed in the 1950s by accident.
My landlord, who lives in East Falls (mostly rowhouses but some freestanding houses as well, plus some large apartment buildings along its border with Germantown; developed between 1900 and 1940 for the most part, but there are some notable Midcentury Modern houses in its upper reaches) and owns property mainly in that neighborhood and mine, put it this way once: "As American cities go, Philadelphia is highly variegated. As Philadelphia neighborhoods go, Germantown is highly variegated."
I'd actually say that, based on the street views I've seen, the types of housing and their rough ages are far more uniform across Chicago's broad divisions than they are across Philadelphia's. Show me a house in Bronzeville and you've probably shown me a house in Englewood, or one in Pilsen and you've shown me one in Bridgeport, or so on. If I show you a house in Andorra, I haven't shown you one in Roxborough, and Andorra is part of Roxborough.
I know at least one person who lives in the vicinity of that first block. He drives a Maybach.
Get the picture?
But also: you had said they were all in Northwest Philly, and they weren't. Yes, the poster is supposed to identify the locations, but I figured I should set you straight on what was what.
Last edited by MarketStEl; 04-17-2020 at 09:01 AM..
I saw no need to give a neighborhood name to -- stevielake's streetviews. That was his job. I merely gave the reference point as Suburban Northwest Philly. If i said just Far North Philly? That would be sufficiant to the thread and my comment.
My Westside Chicago neighborhood example streetviews on one neighborhood previously I highlighted here. Was a AVERAGE NEIGHBORHOOD and not a less common example of the city of Chicago. I as the poster was respondible to tack a neighborhood nane to it and -- stevie again for his. My previous streetview from that was a Northside example neighborhood highlighted by me.
I gave a neighborhood name of each once in both post as the poster. But AVERAGE and COMMON HOUSING Northside and Westside neighborhood would have been sufficiant. Once I say Northwest side or Southwest side? It gets more liquid in borders. a Near West or Farther West side could be a added licstion detail.
I chose the neighborhoods I did for being AVERAGE old-stock Chicago common housing. Not wealthier ones that are not the most common. I could have chose a Edison Park of Chicago (many city workers live), but it is more suburban late 50s 60s area that most does not follow a more common Chicago grid with alleys and average city lot-size homes represented.
I kept "average" as my main reason to use those 2 neighborhoods in separate post. One being mostly Hispanic still has the old-stock housing with a added ethnic touch.
These were Chicago's common housing it chose for its masses in older eras over tighter connected rows by far as a Philly average is more likely to be.
Please lighten up. Too many posters of each city once in a both post take too much offence at the neighborhood beauty found in a city proper of Philadelphia. The city neighborhood you call SUBURBAN NORTHWEST PHILLY is in fact part of and included in Philadelphia. To lay claim to the naming or defining of average streets in a city more and more improving as Philadelphia is to claim to have total authority of what does now define an average Philadelphia street. These Northwest Philadelphia streets also too should be included in this average Philadelphia definition that you seem so authoritative to proclaim.
Some posters of Chicago boostering take too much offense when their city is not praised. City-Data should not cause sadness and argument. Only learning, thinking, positivity and respect.
Disclaimer: I think it is important to reach people of all communication styles.
Chicago definitely offers more of a variety of housing styles than Philly, which is likely >80% rowhouses within city limits. Chicago's SW and NW sides have plenty of bungalows, but by no means is this the only style of housing available.
Philly developers: "Well, we have quite a selection in housing options. We have row houses, and...well.....more row houses!"
One reason I drilled down to the individual neighborhood level is because there's a great deal of variation in the house types, ages, and appearance of blocks in the broad geographical divisions of Northeast and Northwest Philadelphia — greater variation even than you'd find in West or South Philadelphia. (Southwest Philadelphia lies somewhere between South and Northwest Philly in variance; it may be on a par with the Northeast.)
Those Andorra blocks, for instance, look nothing like the blocks dominated by rowhouses and twins around Roxborough's business district.
One section of Mount Airy has nothing but 1920s working-class rowhouses, but if you head six blocks north of it, you're in a lushly wooded neighborhood of freestanding Colonials that's much more affluent. Head east of this area, cross Stenton Avenue (about six blocks east of this second area), and you will think you had entered the part of Northeast Philadelphia that was developed in the 1950s by accident.
My landlord, who lives in East Falls (mostly rowhouses but some freestanding houses as well, plus some large apartment buildings along its border with Germantown; developed between 1900 and 1940 for the most part, but there are some notable Midcentury Modern houses in its upper reaches) and owns property mainly in that neighborhood and mine, put it this way once: "As American cities go, Philadelphia is highly variegated. As Philadelphia neighborhoods go, Germantown is highly variegated."
I'd actually say that, based on the street views I've seen, the types of housing and their rough ages are far more uniform across Chicago's broad divisions than they are across Philadelphia's. Show me a house in Bronzeville and you've probably shown me a house in Englewood, or one in Pilsen and you've shown me one in Bridgeport, or so on. If I show you a house in Andorra, I haven't shown you one in Roxborough, and Andorra is part of Roxborough.
I know at least one person who lives in the vicinity of that first block. He drives a Maybach.
Get the picture?
But also: you had said they were all in Northwest Philly, and they weren't. Yes, the poster is supposed to identify the locations, but I figured I should set you straight on what was what.
Again, Northwest or Far North Philly are just fine for this thread. I could have checked out each neighborhood name snd tried to get google streetview to give me the neighborhood boundaries? Then post as having the kniwledge of one who lived in the immediate region for decades even?
My point said again, they were Nice Suburban-like Philly region of the Northwest reach. I could have said Northwest in direction from Center City, Far North? But it is not the more Eastern push if it. I'm no border neighborhood nerd for Philly. Neighborhoids were not given in thst pisters post WITH the streetviews.
If you feel you needed more knowlege of these nneighborhoods from me why? Far North Philly vs a Northwest Philly may be even fluid even?
Just Northwest I find sufficiant in a reply on them. If one post the original streetviews? They can also post spacific neighborhoods and regions as if in stone. Most are not.
I did dtreetviews on rhem 2 neighbirhoids weparately and gsve a side of Chi it's on and mentiined the neighborhood for the streetviews. I even used google streetvirw to give me the boundary if that neighbirhoid to be sure. They blend quickly if just a few blicks each direction and Chi's can be fluid too.
But outsiders who merely visit Philly ot even some locals to more recent transplants? May not know every neighborhood (especially of Philly's farther North reaches) and the sub-neighborhoods if some ect.
Wikipedia notes this on aspects if Philly neighborhoods.
In the above Link.
Kensington is a neighborhood in Philadelphia, Pennsylvania. Its placement within the broader division of sections of Philadelphia is debated, but it is often considered as a dividing line between or belonging to both the Lower Northeast section of Philadelphia and North Philadelphia.
* As with all neighborhoods in Philadelphia, the lack of any official designation means the boundaries of the area vary between sources and over time.
You know how just a larger Kensington got divided and some just known as its separated parts
Chicago definitely offers more of a variety of housing styles than Philly, which is likely >80% rowhouses within city limits. Chicago's SW and NW sides have plenty of bungalows, but by no means is this the only style of housing available.
Philly developers: "Well, we have quite a selection in housing options. We have row houses, and...well.....more row houses!"
What I meant by what I said was:
Even though row houses dominate Philadelphia in a way they do no other US city save Baltimore, which is a somewhat distant second, if you drill down within the broad geographic subdivisions — North, Northeast, Northwest, West, Southwest and South for Philadelphia, North Side, Northwest Side, West Side, Southwest Side and South Side for Chicago (note that I'm leaving the downtowns out of this) — you will find within some of them a greater variance of types in the housing stock than it seems to me one finds within the broad geographic subdivisions of Chicago.
BTW, according to another poster, rowhouses make up 58% of Philadelphia's housing stock. Twins probably account for another 20, but I'd have to look up the stat. The figure I usually give is 60%, based on eyeballing a Washington Post barchart I've posted here before.
Now, I may be understating the diversity of types within the broad Chicago divisions, but I don't think one will find as stark a contrast as the one I posted with two blocks six blocks apart in East Germantown in that city. Even demographics here have a patchwork-quilt quality to them that I think Chicago either lacks or has in much lower quantity: that affluent district in North Philly I mentioned, East Oak Lane, is surrounded by lower-middle-class neighborhoods on its west and south, a largely lower-income and heavily Korean-American one on its east, and a fairly tony section of Cheltenham Township on its north. East Oak Lane encompasses some 30 or so square blocks; it's not that large.
Given that row houses and twins make up about 100% of the housing stock in South Philly, about 95% in Southwest Philly, and about 85% in West Philly, and that most of the city's large apartment buildings are found in Center City, Wynnefield Heights in West Philly, and in a cluster along the East Falls-Germantown border, that leaves lots of room for more varied housing stock in Northwest and Northeast Philly especially.
House styles are another matter completely. I see far more eclectic blocks, stylistically speaking, in Chicago than I do in Philadelphia.
Chicago definitely offers more of a variety of housing styles than Philly, which is likely >80% rowhouses within city limits. Chicago's SW and NW sides have plenty of bungalows, but by no means is this the only style of housing available.
Philly developers: "Well, we have quite a selection in housing options. We have row houses, and...well.....more row houses!"
Rowhomes aren't a "style," they're a housing type. There are literally countless ways to style a rowhome, just as there are countless ways to style a detached single-family home.
Please lighten up. Too many posters of each city once in a both post take too much offence at the neighborhood beauty found in a city proper of Philadelphia. The city neighborhood you call SUBURBAN NORTHWEST PHILLY is in fact part of and included in Philadelphia. To lay claim to the naming or defining of average streets in a city more and more improving as Philadelphia is to claim to have total authority of what does now define an average Philadelphia street. These Northwest Philadelphia streets also too should be included in this average Philadelphia definition that you seem so authoritative to proclaim.
Some posters of Chicago boostering take too much offense when their city is not praised. City-Data should not cause sadness and argument. Only learning, thinking, positivity and respect.
Disclaimer: I think it is important to reach people of all communication styles.
Being honest in ones common housing and neighborhhods. Is showing how cities differ and uding many other stats too, along with its history brought in. Various cities quickly can be debated by opinions listd and othes post. Stats a bit more less opinion.
This looong running thread had a few re-awakenings and similar arguments on both sides, that could be seen as much. Street views given. I see are representative of the city in its most common attributes best. Some common or average neighborhoods used, older and newer growth ones gentrifying can be too and some may be be less common housing used to represent a city then average ecamples most common? They still count if in the city. Just one snows if a truly average block example is used. If you know of that city.
When I saw a thread -- To post 3 streetviews of you city as a Best, Average snd Rough example. I clearly saw Chicago and Houston represented in streetviews as pretty clearly going by Best, Average and TRULY Rough as being a hood.
Two posters offered nortorious Englewood streetviews as Chicago's ROUGH example as it is truly a hood. In look, parts are decieving yes. The city's frontage helps in aesthetics if kept maintained and if streets are maintained better also. Getting street-cleanings? They generally show it better. Sometimes depends on time of year they are taken too.
I saw one used the Pennsport neighborhood for Philly's ROUGH example. I thought that's far from very Rough example and a rough hood today. It is just South of Greater Center City, or even in a Greater CC todayto many? That means its gentrifying much and further along in renewal then most that I'd pick as true Rough Philly hoods.
I mentioned only a reference of some did not pick anywhere close to a real hood they chose as Rough for their city. I would have picked a real hood block and got heat for it. A couple posters did Chicago fairly and I needed no offering more of that city, but I could of.
My post get too long, I try to be clear and not always my point gotten thru. I also get the negaphiladelphian label, though being a outsider or hater and kicked back.
Debating opinions is a reason to post. No one should just say a city is lowest, ugliest, grimy and other worst names inflamatory. But many debate post that another may defend or just pass it up? But all are up for debate.
We tend to have more time today to do so too.
Last edited by ThinkPositiveRespect; 04-17-2020 at 11:55 AM..
I saw one used the Pennsport neighborhood for Philly's ROUGH example. I thought that's far from very Rough example and a rough hood today. It is just South of Greater Center City, or even in a Greater CC todayto many? That means its gentrifying much and further along in renewal then most that I'd pick as true Rough Philly hoods.
Your eyes were playing tricks on you, my friend. Go back and re-read the thread. Otherwise, I am glad to see you being a good sport about my poking fun at you.
In having time to play streetviews.
I deciding to choose streetviews of Chicago to see ethnic changes of areas once fully hoods. You can tell if even lower income residents take pride in homes and neighborhoods as part of them and where they came from. A lot of Mexican flags seen too.
Here in a Hispanic area now, whose worst days 60s 70s and 80s being across from a Chicago, that was a older nortorious white suburb in its heyday of Cicero. The night and day look crossing suburb to city was once startling.
So I chose some homes in this old Chicago neighborhood once solidly a declined hood that despite still a poorer one. Pride improved the area by its change now Hispanic in ethnicity.
Gardens of flowers and porches of color, show pride despite a poorer area still with hood effects.
Having green-fronts was a city core-value and can show in these poor areas looking good still to again by pride returned. These older-stock of homes were working-class affordable homes Chicago chose over rowhousing, that Philly did and once the green season comes. It is embraced no matter if poorer or not.
Home in streetview built 1895. Last sold for $157,000 and redfin estimate now nearly $190,000. But TAXES the Biggie at over $16,000 that Chicagoans are enduring and pressuring affordability hurting looses of its struggling Middle-class. Add a gentification push that raise cost.
The next block a lovely old Chicago greystone stands out by its frontange showcased. Despite a nice pothole in the street in this shot unpatched by the city.
Chicago's Hispanics are 1/3 the city today thst overtook its African-American 1/3.
My streetviews are on Chicago's West-side neighborhood of Little Village as a Hispanic neighborhood among more African-American ones that fights inroads from its east fringe into it. So far it maintains its Hispanic nature that was always a blu-collar one.
Future gentrification buying has occured threatening its current nature.
The push in pricing upward. Shows steady increases each year, taxes pushed way too high too. As that is a Chicago scourge highlighted. But many neighborhoods either remained vibrant to not gentrify, or are less the cities older blue-collar look most desired. Proximity to either city's core and transit also a roll and how large fear of hood crime
Getting way too difficult to have its Hispanic population to hang on and buy as the gentrification push may win. As these are the old-bones old blue-color areas these young gentrifying professiinals desire.
Despite all its issues. Chicago built great bones and street-grid to homes manytimes unique to it and opposite of Philadelphias 70% attached and 60% real rowhousing.
Since asthetics and desireability can be a preference to what you are use to etc. Adding COL, regional location, taxes as I noted despite possible better city services?
Philadelphia still gets claims of better in a better regional location to NYC to Jersy Shore and outside the metro Southeast PA to 9° warmer average weather.
I always saw rowhousing as the cheaper choice as is the case in most of PA. But not in Philly. It embraces and staunchly defends it as nothing less about it. Understandable in it is the majority of built environment.
These all come to light in comparisons debate in threads. But less so if East Coast urban build is staunchly defended vs if more separating in frontage and yardage was its examples. Neither city here, should be labeled sprawling by city-propers.
Cost, cleanliness and many other differences some add comes in too. The debate will always be ongoing in a who is better? I merely feel streetviews in neighborhoods. Show and give perspective we have as a tool to utilize to prove ones statements. Also interesting to show clear differences.
Next I may do the common Chicago bungalow-belt neighborhoods in steetviews, though gentrifiers prefer it less. But it is 1/3 the Chi build neigborhoods of its 1920s 30s boom period.
I MAY CHOOSE A PHILLY NEIGHBORHOOD? and streetviews. Got time, but maybe not.
I love the street you posted here! What section in Chicago is this? I would stop by in my next visit. I went a little further down and counted 5 places in total where I could pick up a meal. Is there any in particular you would recommend? https://www.google.com/maps/@41.8442...7i16384!8i8192
Reminds me of 5th St which is about a 10 miniute drive from my house. Assortment of different ethnic restaurants. A diverse area, asian, PR, and AA. If you're ever in town, visit 5th St , lots of great shops and eateries .
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and streetviews. Got time, but maybe not.
