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A while back, there was a conversation I had on this board with someone who posted some pic of this vacation island in Florida. "But it has density!" He cried. "There's tall buildings and density and people! That makes it a city!"
And there certainly were. It was a strip of an island with hotels, high rises and the big white sandbar you expect to see in Florida. I'm sure it's a lovely place. But is it really a city? No.
What makes a "real" city? Urban neighborhoods. An urban way of life. High concentrations of people that live a lifestyle not dominated by the automobile.
But the heart of that situation is a living, breathing necklace of urban neighborhoods either around or between the "downtown" areas, where millions of people send their children to school, shop at local stores and generally go on about their life in an urban fashion. They live in high-density areas, in apartment buildings and rowhomes. Many don't own a car. Community is less a function of pleasantry and more a matter of simply having to see people every single day without ever quite being able to escape them.
Those urban neighborhoods are the essence of the equation. That's where people live and work. It's where the definition of urban character is written. Few people live in those glass highrises in the Loop, but take a look at Chicago's south or north sides. You don't even have to have "interesting" architecture, because the real neighborhoods of NYC are pretty bland. But does anyone deny that those are urban cities? Heavens no. They support populations in the millions that live a very specific way.
Those, then, are what make "real" urban cities. Very few cities in the United States actually offer that kind of lifestyle.
So Dublin's fake, since it dosen't have a subway?? Quick, someone tell the Irish! Oh, and tell New Orleans, Houston, San Diego, Charlotte, Tampa, Minneapolis, and all the other "fake" cities that all their buildings are illusions. HURRY!!!!
What makes a "real" city? Urban neighborhoods. An urban way of life. High concentrations of people that live a lifestyle not dominated by the automobile.
But the heart of that situation is a living, breathing necklace of urban neighborhoods either around or between the "downtown" areas, where millions of people send their children to school, shop at local stores and generally go on about their life in an urban fashion. They live in high-density areas, in apartment buildings and rowhomes. Many don't own a car. Community is less a function of pleasantry and more a matter of simply having to see people every single day without ever quite being able to escape them.
Those urban neighborhoods are the essence of the equation. That's where people live and work. It's where the definition of urban character is written. Few people live in those glass highrises in the Loop, but take a look at Chicago's south or north sides. You don't even have to have "interesting" architecture, because the real neighborhoods of NYC are pretty bland. But does anyone deny that those are urban cities? Heavens no. They support populations in the millions that live a very specific way.
Those, then, are what make "real" urban cities. Very few cities in the United States actually offer that kind of lifestyle.
No they don't, at least in NYC. But people deny all the time that cities like LA are "urban cities," despite the large number of highly dense, public transit-oriented neighborhoods in LA, neighborhoods like Koreatown and Westlake and Hollywood. These are areas where many people don't own cars, public transportation is excellent, density is high, and people live very urban lives. Yet you hear all the time that LA isn't "urban," it's not "real," and that it's one big suburb.
Often I think what people really mean, intentionally or not, (although coldwine, this is not directed at you; it's a more general statement), is that "real" cities, or "real, urban" cities, have to include large numbers of white people, or alternatively, perhaps only neighborhoods or cities with large numbers of gentrified upscale urban neighborhoods count. (LA does have plenty of upscale urban neighborhoods, too, but the densest, busiest, and often best-served by public transportation neighborhoods are those that have large numbers of poorer and non-white residents. Try telling them they don't live in a "real" city.)
Often I think what people really mean, intentionally or not, (although coldwine, this is not directed at you; it's a more general statement), is that "real" cities, or "real, urban" cities, have to include large numbers of white people, or alternatively, perhaps only neighborhoods or cities with large numbers of gentrified upscale urban neighborhoods count. (LA does have plenty of upscale urban neighborhoods, too, but the densest, busiest, and often best-served by public transportation neighborhoods are those that have large numbers of poorer and non-white residents. Try telling them they don't live in a "real" city.)
You just hit the nail right on the head. When people say that "no one walks in LA or no one takes public transit in LA", what they really mean is no white people take mass transit in LA. Millions of people use the bus and rail system here everyday, yet they are largely ignored as if they don't count as real people. As you said, go to Hollywood, or Koreatown, or Westlake, or Downtown, and you'll see tons of people walking, taking transit, and all the other things that should qualify LA as a real city. However, since it's not Beverly Hills-types that you see out in these streets, everyone just declares that "nobody walks in LA". What they are really saying is, "Nobody who matters in LA walks in LA".
Location: The Greatest city on Earth: City of Atlanta Proper
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Originally Posted by matt345
You just hit the nail right on the head. When people say that "no one walks in LA or no one takes public transit in LA", what they really mean is no white people take mass transit in LA. Millions of people use the bus and rail system here everyday, yet they are largely ignored as if they don't count as real people. As you said, go to Hollywood, or Koreatown, or Westlake, or Downtown, and you'll see tons of people walking, taking transit, and all the other things that should qualify LA as a real city. However, since it's not Beverly Hills-types that you see out in these streets, everyone just declares that "nobody walks in LA". What they are really saying is, "Nobody who matters in LA walks in LA".
You would be correct in this and I would say the same goes for Atlanta. Our subway here is never ever used...except by the "wrong kind of people"
You just hit the nail right on the head. When people say that "no one walks in LA or no one takes public transit in LA", what they really mean is no white people take mass transit in LA. Millions of people use the bus and rail system here everyday, yet they are largely ignored as if they don't count as real people. As you said, go to Hollywood, or Koreatown, or Westlake, or Downtown, and you'll see tons of people walking, taking transit, and all the other things that should qualify LA as a real city. However, since it's not Beverly Hills-types that you see out in these streets, everyone just declares that "nobody walks in LA". What they are really saying is, "Nobody who matters in LA walks in LA".
I have noticed at times that in entertainment the image of LA mostly revolves around the wealthy whites of the city. To the point that they basically give the impression LA is a city of rich white people, plus some Asians, who go to highscale restaurants and never use public transport. The last few years this is starting to change, but still lingers some.
Which is weird because even as a kid living in the Plains all I had to do is watch the news to know LA included a great deal more than wealthy whites in fancy cars.
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