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I have noticed at times that in entertainment the image of LA mostly revolves around the wealthy whites of the city. To the point that they basically give the impression LA is a city of rich white people, plus some Asians, who go to highscale restaurants and never use public transport. The last few years this is starting to change, but still lingers some.
Which is weird because even as a kid living in the Plains all I had to do is watch the news to know LA included a great deal more than wealthy whites in fancy cars.
So Dublin's fake, since it dosen't have a subway?? Quick, someone tell the Irish! Oh, and tell New Orleans, Houston, San Diego, Charlotte, Tampa, Minneapolis, and all the other "fake" cities that all their buildings are illusions. HURRY!!!!
Dublin is actually installing a subway. They're even moving a famous statue to do so.
And no, San Diego, Charlotte and Tampa are not cities. They're suburbs with a very small office core, where citizens of the "city" live in single family houses and drive everywhere.
Quote:
Originally Posted by uptown_urbanist
No they don't, at least in NYC. But people deny all the time that cities like LA are "urban cities," despite the large number of highly dense, public transit-oriented neighborhoods in LA, neighborhoods like Koreatown and Westlake and Hollywood. These are areas where many people don't own cars, public transportation is excellent, density is high, and people live very urban lives. Yet you hear all the time that LA isn't "urban," it's not "real," and that it's one big suburb.
Often I think what people really mean, intentionally or not, (although coldwine, this is not directed at you; it's a more general statement), is that "real" cities, or "real, urban" cities, have to include large numbers of white people, or alternatively, perhaps only neighborhoods or cities with large numbers of gentrified upscale urban neighborhoods count. (LA does have plenty of upscale urban neighborhoods, too, but the densest, busiest, and often best-served by public transportation neighborhoods are those that have large numbers of poorer and non-white residents. Try telling them they don't live in a "real" city.)
I don't think that's true at all. The "city" as it is traditionally defined by Americans is the crime-ridden place with apartment buildings and black people. It's been that way since the white flight movement of the 50's.
That's a good point, and there are many people who define the city as crime-ridden places with apartment buildings and black people. That doesn't take away from the fact that many of those same people fail to consider places like LA and other non-traditional East Coast or Midwest cities to be "real" cities, even though they fit this description (although in the case of LA, anyway, there are fewer black people and more Hispanic and Asian people). Because the reality is that on forums like this and with talking to people, even people who should know better, I hear all the time that in cities like LA (and elsewhere) "no one" takes public transportation, "everyone" lives in single family houses, "everyone" drives, etc., when even the briefest visit to vast sections of the city show that there are block after block of apartment buildings, statistics show that many people don't actually own a car, and a ride on the bus or the subway proves them to be packed.
For that matter, I haven't been to Charlotte or Tampa, but have been to San Diego, and have friends who live in apartment buildings there and don't drive.
It seems to me that people come up with their own individualized idea of what a real city is based on their own personal biases. It's a lame way to make themselves feel superior because they live in the TYPE of city they live in. They create this bogus superiority by inventing bogus characteristics of a "real city" to make lots of other cities become categorized as fake or faux, etc. To me "real" means something which actually exists, ie. not imagined. City can be looked up in the dictionary and is defined-
(in the U.S.) an incorporated municipality, usually governed by a mayor and a board of aldermen or councilmen.
an inhabited place of greater size, population, or importance than a town or village
So therefore, objectively speaking, a real city is an inhabited place of greater size, population, or importance than a town or village which exists as a municipality, usually governed by a mayor and a board of aldermen or councilmen and which actually exists in the real world as opposed to a fictional novel or a miniature model. All these definitions with public transit, winding avenues, McMansions, sprawl, etc. include biased bogus individualized preferences which actually have absolutely nothing to do with what a real city is. It has to do with what their PREFERRED city is. And obviously there are plenty of real cities besides their preferred city. But elitism or snobbery or arrogance hides that reality from their understanding and leaves them promoting real error.
A while back, there was a conversation I had on this board with someone who posted some pic of this vacation island in Florida. "But it has density!" He cried. "There's tall buildings and density and people! That makes it a city!"
And there certainly were. It was a strip of an island with hotels, high rises and the big white sandbar you expect to see in Florida. I'm sure it's a lovely place. But is it really a city? No.
What makes a "real" city? Urban neighborhoods. An urban way of life. High concentrations of people that live a lifestyle not dominated by the automobile.
But the heart of that situation is a living, breathing necklace of urban neighborhoods either around or between the "downtown" areas, where millions of people send their children to school, shop at local stores and generally go on about their life in an urban fashion. They live in high-density areas, in apartment buildings and rowhomes. Many don't own a car. Community is less a function of pleasantry and more a matter of simply having to see people every single day without ever quite being able to escape them.
Those urban neighborhoods are the essence of the equation. That's where people live and work. It's where the definition of urban character is written. Few people live in those glass highrises in the Loop, but take a look at Chicago's south or north sides. You don't even have to have "interesting" architecture, because the real neighborhoods of NYC are pretty bland. But does anyone deny that those are urban cities? Heavens no. They support populations in the millions that live a very specific way.
Those, then, are what make "real" urban cities. Very few cities in the United States actually offer that kind of lifestyle.
...Though prior to the massive suburbanization effort that got into full swing about 50 years ago, MANY cities in the US of various sizes, particularly in the Northeast and Midwest, met your criteria. I'd love it if we could dial some of them back to that.
This thread is not about definitions. There is no definition for "real" city--anywhere. There's a reason the OP put quotes around the word real. If there was, there'd be no basis for discussion. Go back and read the OP. Clearly, it is opinions being sought. Yours is as good as the next guy's (though it may be misinformed--that's where we can disagree). I swear, some of you guys just want to fight.
It just so happens to be the most poorly designed city anywhere on the planet
But the very idea that Dallas or Houston, Charlotte or bloody Tampa are cities? No. Absolutely not.
Well, that's your delusion, and you're welcome to it.
But it is still a delusion.
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