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Brickmama: are you arguing for STL? If you are I don't think saying that everyone with money leaves and the rest don't because they don't have the money to is a real selling point. I actually have been to StL and it was fine just not in the same league as Denver I would compare it more to Detroit.
STLcardblues: Qualifying racist statements with I didn't mean them to be doesn't make them less racist. I won't respond anymore I refuse to get into an argument with people who believe these types of things.
I have a hard time believing that the Hispanic percentage in the lou is only 2 percent! Not saying it is not true, it just seems way to low!
Again, over 50 square miles of Denver is DIA. Take that out (it is hardly even connected to the city except by Pena blvd.) and Denver is only slightly larger than the lou, and more dense.
Brickmama: are you arguing for STL? If you are I don't think saying that everyone with money leaves and the rest don't because they don't have the money to is a real selling point. I actually have been to StL and it was fine just not in the same league as Denver I would compare it more to Detroit.
STL had a large amount of White Flight in the 60's and 70's in which higher income folks moved out of the city. The funny thing is, the reverse is occuring today. Highing income people are moving back into the city and will eventually change the often skewed crime stats.
STL has not experienced even close the amount of decay Detroit has. If that is what you noticed then you probably didnt visit most of the city and for some reason you were in one of the bad areas. It actually makes me wonder if you even visited STL.
Again, over 50 square miles of Denver is DIA. Take that out (it is hardly even connected to the city except by Pena blvd.) and Denver is only slightly larger than the lou, and more dense.
You can say this about any city and STL isn't an exception. We have a lot of underdeveloped land along the north riverfront and the largest urban park in the country which brings down our density stats. You just can't play with the stats until you are satisfied. Why can't you just accept reality that STL is more dense than Denver by a decent margin? If you have been to both cities it is recognizable.
Seattle is more dense than STL and you don't see me trying to dispute it. Face reality.
Brickmama: are you arguing for STL? If you are I don't think saying that everyone with money leaves and the rest don't because they don't have the money to is a real selling point. I actually have been to StL and it was fine just not in the same league as Denver I would compare it more to Detroit.
STLcardblues: Qualifying racist statements with I didn't mean them to be doesn't make them less racist. I won't respond anymore I refuse to get into an argument with people who believe these types of things.
All I'm saying is that you can't throw crime stats into the mix without looking at all numbers, including racial demographics and income levels. Is a city with a large black population going to have higher crime numbers? Not necessarily. But the supposedly more dangerous cities have a higher population of blacks. St. Louis has had issues with racial tension in the past (maybe not as much as some cities) and that can make a difference on overall population, which makes a difference on tax base, which effects everything else, including crime numbers.
Denver has not lost the same amount of population as St. Louis. When your tax base decreases considerably, so does your ability to fight crime. When a few (and I said a few in St. Louis) neighborhoods are less densely occupied with more abandoned homes, crime generally goes up. Most of these neighborhoods are majority black. That doesn't mean it's the fault of the blacks that live there, but as the richer people moved out, the tax base decreased. That lowered police presence and raised crime. That, in turn, lowered property values. It's a vicious cycle. It's more about income-level than about race.
You can't act like race had nothing to do with white flight. Whites started moving out, blacks started moving in, whites continued moving out. It's not the fault of the blacks. Some of the whites didn't want to live near "those people." Some of the higher-income residents moved out to the suburbs for bigger houses, better schools, cheaper land, lower crime. Eventually, in some areas, the middle- and upper-class blacks began moving out as well, further deteriorating the tax base.
My point was that you have to include all statistics when comparing cities. It's not the fault of any particular race that a lot of cities suffered white flight. Those who left and those who moved in had their reasons. But you cannot deny that white flight has effected many cities, usually negatively. This "fleeing the city" attitude is beginning to turn back around in many cities, but, overall, it's a slow process.
You can't ignore race and income-levels and all other demographics when discussing a city. They're all part of it.
And I realize St. Louis has not had the same amount of decay as Detroit. St. Louis is much smaller.
When I visited Denver I just randomly chose a suburban hotel to stay in (actually according to price and proximity to airport). And to my surprise woke up looking out my window at this.
Later that day I was here.
Then Later that evening after just a 30 min or so drive was here.
Really though. I don't know but can St Louis top that? Being I've never been to the Loo.
Well, STL doesnt have the Rockies nearby, but the STL area does kinda butt up against some of the Ozarks, which are beautiful, too.
Right outside STL area:
I choose STL. Its a far more interesting place to me. Its closer to other cities, and has just as much to do as Denver. I also prefer its skyline to Denvers.
Just my opinion of course, but STL's skyline is quite pleasing, especially at night when crossing over the mighty Mississippi from Illinois. I know Denver's is bigger, but theres something about the STL skyline, especially when youre on 55 near the Cards stadium, has a great view and its nice!
Nice view! I know it is your opinion. Just seems like besides the Arch, they have nothing of interest at all. No talls, no real density, etc. To each their own I guess.
We have... the largest urban park in the country ...
Forest Park IS NOT the Largest urban park in the Country
City Park Size (acres)
Phoenix, Arizona: South Mountain Park 16283
Roanoke, Virginia, USA Carvins Cove Natural Reserve 12700
Houston, Texas George Bush Park 7800
Memphis, TN Shelby Farms 4500
San Diego, CA Mission Trails Park 4323
Los Angeles, CA Griffith Park 4210
Philadelphia, PA Fairmount Park 4100
Chico, CA Bidwell Park 3670
New York (The Bronx) Pelham Bay Park 2766
Washington, DC Rock Creek Park 1754
Grand Rapids, MI, Millenium Park 1500
Cincinnati, OH, Mt. Airy Forest 1470
New Orleans, LA, New Orleans City Park 1300 Saint Louis, MO, Forest Park 1293
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