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Alabama, Houston etc is the TEMPERATE ZONE, NOT subtropical.
Subtropical means a transitinal zone between the tropics and the temperate zone ( Miami to Key West )
You two just do not get it........
Miami in its NATURAL STATE would have predominantly TEMPERATE ZONE VEGETATION.
MUCH of Miami's tropical vegetation was INTIALLY IMPORTED from Hispanola. Yes, Miami can grow Cuban Royals but they are VERY COLD HARDY for a tropical species.
The coconut palms ( a bit less cold hardy) DO NOT do THAT well. Many in Miami are freeze damaged and they DO NOT THRIVE outside of a tropical area. Full height is usually not reached, and even if so they are freeze damaged . Coconut palms do NOT thrive in Miami. They THRIVE IN PUERTO RICO though.
So, NO, Miami ALSO does NOT live up to the true tropics as far as vegetation. Miami also does NOT live up tp the true tropics as far as sunlight strength. Miami also does NOT live up to the true tropics for temps
HONG KONG IS WARMER AT NIGHT IN WINTER DO THE RESEARCH EACH MONTH IN WINTER YEAR BY YEAR.IN THE ARCHIVES
YOU WILL SEE WHY HONG KONG BEATS IT.
YOU TWO DO NOT GET THAT HONG KONG IS A STABLE 50 - 68 DEGREES IN WINTER. THE LOW IS NOT NEARLY AS LOW AS MIAMI'S
The difference is MIami heats up in the DAY alot . THis factors in the average.
HONG KONG CAN GROW SOME DELICATE TROPICALS UNLIKE MIAMI BECAUSE HONG KONG IS FAIRLY CONSISTENT. CONSISTENT 50- DEGREE LOW TEMPS TRUMP THE UPPER THIRTIES OF MIAMI.
MIAMI WILL DIP LOWER THAN HONG KONG IN WINTER AND FOR A FAIR AMOUNT OF TIME- (AT LEAST 15- 20 DAYS A WINTER)..
THIS IS A FACT.
MIAMI HAS COLDER ABSOLUTELY TEMPERATURES IN THE WINTER MONTHS AT NIGHT.
SO LISTEN CLOSELY YOU TWO:
HONG KONG CAN GROW THE LIPSTICK PALM
MIAMI CANNOT
There IS a REASON for this. The REASON is HONG KONG'S ABSOLUTELY LOWS IN AT NIGHT IN WINTER ARE NOT as low as Miami's.
los angeles? the entire gulf coast is more tropical than LA
Quite true:
Cities on the Gulf Coast are more “tropical” in their annual weather (humidity, high rainfall, long hot season, hot temps…etc) than a city like Los Angeles or San Diego.
However… both regions climatically fall under the “Subtropical” climate classification: 8 or more months 50 F (10 C) or higher. Los Angeles and San Diego of course are a “Dry Summer Subtropical” (often called Mediterranean) known as Cs…while locations in the Gulf and South Atlantic are known as “Humid Subtropical” or Cf. Both regions are located in the subtropics however by climate classifications.
But your right in the sense that a city like LA has more of a dry (even desert) climate than a typically tropical climate. I have often thought they should rename the subtropical dry summer climate (Cs) to just "subtropical dry".
Cities on the Gulf Coast are more “tropical” in their annual weather (humidity, high rainfall, long hot season, hot temps…etc) than a city like Los Angeles or San Diego.
However… both regions climatically fall under the “Subtropical” climate classification: 8 or more months 50 F (10 C) or higher. Los Angeles and San Diego of course are a “Dry Summer Subtropical” (often called Mediterranean) known as Cs…while locations in the Gulf and South Atlantic are known as “Humid Subtropical” or Cf. Both regions are located in the subtropics however by climate classifications.
But your right in the sense that a city like LA has more of a dry (even desert) climate than a typically tropical climate. I have often thought they should rename the subtropical dry summer climate (Cs) to just "subtropical dry".
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very interesting. were does brownsville fit in? is it more like new orleans, houston, pensacola or more like south florida I wonder?
Location: The western periphery of Terra Australis
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I think we'll just have to agree to disagree. Because your assertions about Miami being colder at night are an attempt to mis-represent the facts. Whatever way you try to skew it facts are facts. Hong Kong is on average cooler than Miami in winter. Extremes, or unusual lows aside, it's the averages that matter most in climate classifications. Those archives you talk about refer to odd cold spells. Miami's January low average is nowhere near the high 30s. As we've pointed out it's about 60F. You make it out that temps in the 30s are common in Miami when it can get years without temps below 40F.
Others can continue to argue with you but you seem so set in your ways so I won't continue this. Either way, I don't think it's terribly important, people will still flock to Miami for it's warm weather.
I think we'll just have to agree to disagree. Because your assertions about Miami being colder at night are an attempt to mis-represent the facts. Whatever way you try to skew it facts are facts. Hong Kong is on average cooler than Miami in winter. Extremes, or unusual lows aside, it's the averages that matter most in climate classifications. Those archives you talk about refer to odd cold spells. Miami's January low average is nowhere near the high 30s. As we've pointed out it's about 60F. You make it out that temps in the 30s are common in Miami when it can get years without temps below 40F.
Others can continue to argue with you but you seem so set in your ways so I won't continue this. Either way, I don't think it's terribly important, people will still flock to Miami for it's warm weather.
Cities on the Gulf Coast are more “tropical” in their annual weather (humidity, high rainfall, long hot season, hot temps…etc) than a city like Los Angeles or San Diego.
However… both regions climatically fall under the “Subtropical” climate classification: 8 or more months 50 F (10 C) or higher. Los Angeles and San Diego of course are a “Dry Summer Subtropical” (often called Mediterranean) known as Cs…while locations in the Gulf and South Atlantic are known as “Humid Subtropical” or Cf. Both regions are located in the subtropics however by climate classifications.
But your right in the sense that a city like LA has more of a dry (even desert) climate than a typically tropical climate. I have often thought they should rename the subtropical dry summer climate (Cs) to just "subtropical dry".
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Good point. Warm does not mean tropical or even subtropical. The Southwest is as warm or warmer than much of the Gulf Coast but in no way reflects a tropical climate. The exception is the summer monsoon that primarily effects Arizona & New Mexico [also the desert regions of California & southern Nevada]. During the monsoon season humidity can soar & thunderstorms are not uncommon. That's when visiting places like Palm Springs & Phoenix can be deadly [temps over 100F w/ dew points above 70].
What surprises people is that Los Angeles is warmer than Gulf Coast cities [Houston\ New Orleans\ Jacksonville, etc] during winter & isn't much cooler than even Brownsville & Tampa. All areas much further south than California. It has to do with how the Pacific ocean modifies winter air masses & that Canadian cold gets blocked from entering California due to the high mountains. LA rarely observes minimums below 40F [even less than Tampa & Orlando].
But, as you point out, the climate of LA & San Diego is southern "Mediterranean" [more like northern Africa] with a long dry season [often over 7 months without rain] and sunny weather. Summers are delightfully mild compared to the rest of the U.S. right along the immediate coastline though much warmer just a few miles away from the Pacific. And winters are also mild [mainly 60's-low 70's] with occasional rain. Not tropical by any means but warmer than most of the U.S. from November to March.
My husband, who is a Science teacher and teaches this, said that the tropics are between 23 1/2 degrees north and south of the equator; therefore, that makes Hong Kong tropical. I'd say he's pretty reliable when it comes to this since he has Masters + 30 in Science and has been teaching this every year.
So this would therefore rule out Miami. It's tropical in nature, but it's not IN the tropics. Hong Kong is.
EXACTLY!!! Tropical in Nature. I am NOT saying Miami is in the tropics or gets as much sun light as a place in the tropics. All I am saying that if you define climate on how it is defined by Precipitation and Temperature Miami has a tropical CLIMATE!
I am going by my many geography books I use in college Miami has a tropical CLIMATE!
Miami gets into the mid to upper 70's ( at least 70) for the maximum in January usually , even when it gets its characteristic COLD mid to upper 30's.
Hong Kong average maximum in January is only 67. Miami's average maximum in January is 76. This is a huge reason why Miami "averages" warmer, the DAY factors into it.
HOWEVER, HONG KONG IS MORE STABLE IN WINTER THAN MIAMI AS FAR AS LOW NIGHT TEMPS.
Hong Kong low Miami low
January 1
January 2
January 3
January 4 61 44
January 5 62 43
Jnauary 6 55 40
January 7 51 44
January 8 50 49
Jnauary 9 54 38
January 10 59 35
January 11 53 36
January 12 49 43
Jnauary 13 49 47
January 14 54 54
Jnauary 15 58 63
Jnauary 16 57 71
January 17 57 68
Jnauary 18 59 63
Jnauary 19 60 57
January 20 69 56
January 21 71 71
HONG KONG, while not exactly warm in winter, IS CONSISTENT AS STILL HAS TROPICAL CALIBER TEMPS
MIAMI GETS TOO COLD FOR DELICATE TROPICALS.
THIS IS TYPICAL EVERY YEAR. HONG KONG WINS FOR THE NIGHT LOW.
Good point. Warm does not mean tropical or even subtropical. The Southwest is as warm or warmer than much of the Gulf Coast but in no way reflects a tropical climate. The exception is the summer monsoon that primarily effects Arizona & New Mexico [also the desert regions of California & southern Nevada]. During the monsoon season humidity can soar & thunderstorms are not uncommon. That's when visiting places like Palm Springs & Phoenix can be deadly [temps over 100F w/ dew points above 70].
What surprises people is that Los Angeles is warmer than Gulf Coast cities [Houston\ New Orleans\ Jacksonville, etc] during winter & isn't much cooler than even Brownsville & Tampa. All areas much further south than California. It has to do with how the Pacific ocean modifies winter air masses & that Canadian cold gets blocked from entering California due to the high mountains. LA rarely observes minimums below 40F [even less than Tampa & Orlando].
But, as you point out, the climate of LA & San Diego is southern "Mediterranean" [more like northern Africa] with a long dry season [often over 7 months without rain] and sunny weather. Summers are delightfully mild compared to the rest of the U.S. right along the immediate coastline though much warmer just a few miles away from the Pacific. And winters are also mild [mainly 60's-low 70's] with occasional rain. Not tropical by any means but warmer than most of the U.S. from November to March.
Exactly right.
That’s why I think folks get so lost in this tropical Vs no tropical climate: They are stuck on temperature as “single absolute bases for this label”. Tropical climates have certain characteristics besides temperature …i.e…high rainfall…warm annual mean temps…higher humidity…etc. in addition to being mostly or totally frost free…that make them tropical.
Of course the same is true of the “subtropics”: Both Los Angeles and New Orleans are subtropical climates …Los Angeles has fewer bouts of colder temps (under 40 F), but has cooler summers…while New Orleans has more severe cold snaps, but paradoxically is the warmer climate - with higher annual mean temperatures and a much hotter summer. Yet, temperature differences hide the truly “big difference” between these both “subtropical climates”: subtropical California is a very dry climate (and bone dry in summer)…while New Orleans is wet climate (with a summer monsoon). LA gets less than 15 inches of rainfall annually…New Orleans gets 50 inches. This is truly the biggest difference between them. You are right…in terms of climate…LA or San Diego (and much of southern California) shares much more climatically with North Africa or Perth than with New Orleans or Brisbane, or Hong Kong.
Also, I saw some of the posters above debating the issue about being in the 23.5 N/S tropical zone. Folks should keep in mind that locations at the edge of any climate zone (tropical, subtropical, temperate, sub polar…etc.) will move a few hundred km north/south of the line over the long term: Once a decade or so, cities near the margin of 23. 5 N/S… like Miami (25 N), Hong Kong (22 N), Rio (24 S)…etc will fall slightly out of the tropical zone. This goes for the line near any climate zone. The normal line for the subtropics (8 months mean temp 50 F or higher) on the East Coast is around Virginia Beach …and on the West Coast around San Francisco. However, in some years (or set of years) the subtropical line reaches Crescent City, Cailifornia (41 north)…and southern Connecticut (41 north). In some years the line contracts south of the mean line.
Locations near climate lines are not set in concrete. What distinguishes where a certain city or location is "classified in"…is based on long term observation (15 , 30, 45 years, etc). This is especially important in locations that straddle a climate boundary.
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