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Location: The land of sugar... previously Houston and Austin
5,429 posts, read 14,839,547 times
Reputation: 3672
Quote:
Originally Posted by Scout_972
Houston telling Dallas it's not as sprawly with suburban office parks, is like one girl telling another 'I'm not as pregnant as you'.
Perhaps... but all you have to do is look at the locations of the fortune 500 companies in both places.
Even Houston's medical district, which is just 3 or 4 miles outside of the downtown CBD, is projected to possibly grow larger than downtown Dallas in the coming years.
So yes, Houston is more centralized. Even if it's just by Texas standards. The discussion of this subject has gone on ad nauseum on city-data in the Texas forums...
Houston telling Dallas it's not as sprawly with suburban office parks, is like one girl telling another 'I'm not as pregnant as you'.
Because Houston's metropolitan is not a multipolar region like Dallas. They are both suburban but Houston's area revolves around Houston, but Dallas area revolves around Dallas and its suburbs.
Look at all the Texans dominating this thread and discussing how great they are. It's so telling how few (if any) Californians have even replied to this thread. Wow.
Perhaps... but all you have to do is look at the locations of the fortune 500 companies in both places.
Even Houston's medical district, which is just 3 or 4 miles outside of the downtown CBD, is projected to possibly grow larger than downtown Dallas in the coming years.
So yes, Houston is more centralized. Even if it's just by Texas standards. The discussion of this subject has gone on ad nauseum on city-data in the Texas forums...
While I dont disagree with you, one thing we have to keep in mind is that because Houston is so large it has neighborhoods in its city that would be equal to Dallas suburbs. Bunker Hill for example is part of Houston. Yet, it is every bit as suburban as Plano.
Once you get outside 610 Houston turns extremely suburban (minus perhaps the Post Oak area). Whats inside 610 is pretty comparable to whats inside 635 for Dallas.
But on the whole, I do agree that Dallas is alot more multi-polar.
Texas is where California was in the 1950s. A booming growing state with many metropolis that was pretty conservative but was still a magnet for foreigners and domestic residents. Texas cities are more spread out but is slowly but surely starting to compact itself. You can make an argument that all the city proper of Texas are taking the Los Angeles model. There is nothing equivalent to the built environment of San Francisco in Texas and no city even has a chance to do so if they wanted to.
Two different states but there are similarities. Similarities that are attractive to residents of both states even though they hate to admit it.
I think that's the best way to put it.
I don't think a whole lot of Americans realize that California was one of the most Conservative states before the 1990s (even the Bay Area, especially before the 1960s!). However, it was conservative in the same way that Arizona is conservative; economic conservatism and social liberalism. There was an apparent libertarianism here, matching up with California's Wild West attitude.
It seems that nowadays, the whole Sunbelt is following the same model as Los Angeles. Initial sprawl, but densifying later. However, unlike LA, Texas cities can afford to sprawl out more and more because of the lack of geographic restraints that would force infill. There are swamps and the Gulf to the southeast side of Houston, but sprawling north and west can still happen. Dallas..I'm not aware of anything that can physically restrain sprawl.
San Francisco and Oakland are HUGE anomalies in California. I would argue that they were the last cities in the United States to build cities according to the model of the east while Los Angeles was the first city to build with the automobile in mind! Physically small, dense cities are more common in Northern California, but I still believe that its a sunbelt area. Just look at satellite photos of the Sacramento area! But even with that, there is still a more public transit oriented development policy in the Bay Area and Sacramento to make up for that. Once BART connects to San Jose sometime maybe this decade, expect ridership of both BART and VTA Light Rail in SJ to go up, with increasing density to follow.
With the exception of Sacramento, Fresno, Bakersfield, and other Central Valley towns, California's cities are pretty much built out. Texas probably won't have that issue for years to come.
San Francisco and Oakland are HUGE anomalies in California. I would argue that they were the last cities in the United States to build cities according to the model of the east while Los Angeles was the first city to build with the automobile in mind! Physically small, dense cities are more common in Northern California, but I still believe that its a sunbelt area. Just look at satellite photos of the Sacramento area! But even with that, there is still a more public transit oriented development policy in the Bay Area and Sacramento to make up for that. Once BART connects to San Jose sometime maybe this decade, expect ridership of both BART and VTA Light Rail in SJ to go up, with increasing density to follow.
I think people forget that there really are alot of conservatives and Republicans in California. Orange and San Diego counties were huge opponents of Gay Marriage and are economically very conservative. LA county even voted to ban gay marriage. The southern half of the state is more conservative than people think. Even Torrance (where I grew up), voted for Bush in 2004 as did alot of LA suburbs and Orange County.
I think people forget that there really are alot of conservatives and Republicans in California. Orange and San Diego counties were huge opponents of Gay Marriage and are economically very conservative. LA county even voted to ban gay marriage. The southern half of the state is more conservative than people think. Even Torrance (where I grew up), voted for Bush in 2004 as did alot of LA suburbs and Orange County.
I'm probably one of the few people who think that if it weren't for the illegal immigration wedge issue, ALL of Southern California including Los Angeles would probably be a red area. Immigrants in SoCal for the most part just want to be left alone to make a living, and want to keep as much as their customs as possible. For the most part, a very socially conservative group of people. There's something about the feel of SoCal that makes you think there is an underlying economic conservatism just waiting to get out.
Since my childhood home was in the City of Los Angeles, it was pretty clear that were it not for Prop 187 and Pete Wilson's fine foresight into the future for his party, more LA residents would probably not be scared to vote for a VIABLE conservative candidate who wasn't a movie star beforehand. Any candidate who comes off as anti-immigrant (even if its just targeting illegal immigration) won't fare very well almost anywhere in California.
However, like what people say 'Where the Bay and LA go, the state goes with it' For more and more Californians, this is becoming more and more apparent. Just watch what will happen in Texas when Houston and Dallas by themselves dictate policies for the state as a whole.
I've been to Los Angeles and North Texas (Dallas, Fort Worth, Garland, Allen, Plano, Frisco, Grapevine), I don't think they are comparable, though I think Houston could match up with LA in similarities. But other than that they are polar opposites. I liked Texas much better anyway.
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