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As regards San Francisco -- gritty? FFS! A beautiful city, no doubt, but most definitely NOT gritty. San Francisco is "Legoland." If it has "grit," it's "toy grit."
Now Oakland, on the other hand...THERE is a gritty city.
Finally, shouldn't this question really be inverted? Nearly all the American cities I have been too have significant "gritty" elements. Wouldn't it make more sense to hone in on major or mid-size American cities that are "not gritty? (despite some "gritty" elements)"
Major "Not Gritty" city: Minneapolis-St. Paul (the only "non-gritty" rustbelt city!)
Mid-size "Not Gritty" city: Mmmmm....????
Mpls/St Paul are not in the Rust Belt. It doesn't extend this far west.
As someone who has actually spent lots of time in both SF and Oakland, SF is basically just as gritty. It has a lower crime rate of course, but SF's bad neighborhoods are nearly as numerous/large as Oakland's, and pretty much just as gritty as Oakland's bad neighborhoods in terms of appearance and crime levels. (Hunters Point, Visitacion Valley, the Mission, Potrero Hill Projects, Tenderloin, to name a few for SF). remember that SF is also MUCH more densely populated than Oakland, and dense cities tend to have a good amount of grit. SF's downtown is also MORE gritty than Oakland's downtown (Oakland has nothing like the Tenderloin or SOMA in SF, which are both gritty, grimey, high-crime downtown areas...especially the tenderloin). Further more, SF's industrial areas are just as gritty as Oakland's are (Central Waterfront, Hunters Point for SF, and west/North Oakland, for example). That's not to say that there aren't lots of very nice, shiney non-gritty neighborhoods in SF, because there are (same deal for Oakland). But to say SF's grit is "toy grit" is pretty much stupid.
And since other people are mentioning blue collar people, i'll just quickly point out that SF has MORE impoverished people than Oakland, and likely at least as many blue collar people...remember SF ha twice Oakland's population (remember that poverty rates are fixed nation wide and that SF is more expensive than Oakland too, so many SF residents are actually a bit poorer in terms of spending power than simple income stats might suggest).
As regards San Francisco -- gritty? FFS! A beautiful city, no doubt, but most definitely NOT gritty. San Francisco is "Legoland." If it has "grit," it's "toy grit."
Now Oakland, on the other hand...THERE is a gritty city.
Finally, shouldn't this question really be inverted? Nearly all the American cities I have been too have significant "gritty" elements. Wouldn't it make more sense to hone in on major or mid-size American cities that are "not gritty? (despite some "gritty" elements)"
Major "Not Gritty" city: Minneapolis-St. Paul (the only "non-gritty" rustbelt city!)
Mid-size "Not Gritty" city: Mmmmm....????
Something tells me you've never been to San Francisco.
I've been to SF many times, and to me, it's grittier than NYC (but I've only been to Manhattan, so that's what I'm comparing it to)
That said, I absolutely love cities with some degree of "grit;" it definitely adds some character. I'm sure others will disagree, but new and shiny doesn't do it for me.
Definitely understand where you're coming from. Wish my city had a bit more of it myself, particularly in the urban core.
haha, it happens. I was going to look up and post actual numbers, but i had to go to work (and now that i think about it, i'm a blue collar SF worker myself). Here are different industries by amount of people employed, for both SF and Oakland, with blue collar stuff highlighted:
San Francisco (430,604 workers):
Agriculture, forestry, fishing and hunting, and mining - 477 - 0.1%
Construction - 19,978 - 4.5%
Manufacturing - 25,878 - 5.8%
Wholesale trade - 8,831 - 2.0%
Retail trade - 38,625 - 8.7%
Transportation and warehousing, and utilities - 15,481 - 3.5%
Information - 23,047 - 5.2%
Finance and insurance, and real estate and rental and leasing - 43,131 - 9.7%
Professional, scientific, and management, and administrative and waste management services - 89,021 - 20.1%
Educational services, and health care and social assistance - 86,597 - 19.5%
Arts, entertainment, and recreation, and accommodation, and food services - 55,175 - 12.4%
Other services, except public administration - 22,889 - 5.2%
Public administration - 14,474 - 3.3%
Oakland (170,994 workers):
Agriculture, forestry, fishing and hunting, and mining - 170 - 0.1%
Construction - 14,106 - 8.2%
Manufacturing - 11,756 - 6.9%
Wholesale trade - 4,196 - 2.5%
Retail trade - 16,620 - 9.7%
Transportation and warehousing, and utilities - 9,441 - 5.5%
Information - 5,628 - 3.3%
Finance and insurance, and real estate and rental and leasing - 10,520 - 6.2%
Professional, scientific, and management, and administrative and waste management services - 26,506 - 15.5%
Educational services, and health care and social assistance - 39,396 - 23.0%
Arts, entertainment, and recreation, and accommodation, and food services - 15,644 - 9.1%
Other services, except public administration - 10,179 - 6.0%
Public administration - 6,832 - 4.0%
So that looks to be:
61,814 people, or about 14% of SF's workforce that's blue collar for sure
35,473 people, or about 21% of Oakland's workforce that's blue collar for sure
and here's those in poverty:
Oakland: 72,747 - 18.0%
San Francisco: 95,459 - 11.8%
So SF does have a good deal more blue collar workers and impoverished people than Oakland, while Oakland has a higher percentage of workers that are blue collar and people that are impoverished. I don't think they're quite as far off from each other as some people seem to imagine though.
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