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you realize that shot is 12 miles long right and taken from outside the city, that isn't DOWNTOWN, that's the entire north side with a population double that of DC. Where are you going on this bike ride, how "Big" do you consider it's downtown? Chicago retains urbanity for a far longer stretch than Boston, I think you need to go to Chicago again if you really think DC has more urbanity than Chicago.
Chicago does have far more urbanity because its much larger. But if you really break the city down, the Southside is not more urban than East Coast cities. In fact, it downright suburban. Large avenues with strip malls and box stores for miles and miles. East Coast cities don't look like this. Plus they are more compact with rowhouses. Chicago doesn't really have a lot of rowhouses. They have bungalows with driveways and flats. My Baltimore example shows you how much of that city really is. Curb, small sidewalk, three steps, someone's living room.
I find the people to be very similar. I say this despite the lack of ethnic Whites. I say this purely because I think you're overstating the significance of ethnic Whites in Philadelphia (where I have experience). It's absolutely there, particularly in the older generation, but most people my age do not wear their ethnicity on their sleeve like that. (I'm not saying none do). The urban professionals are exactly the same in both cities. And minus a few Italian parishes in Wilmington, the people of DC are the same as the people of Delaware (but a little less laid back and a little ruder).
We'll just have to agree to disagree. I lived in Philadelphia for 17 years--went to elementary, high school, student government, Keystone Boys State, all of that. There's definitely strong identification along ethnic lines, particularly as it relates to hiring in certain positions in city government. And my high school classmates, many of whom were Italian, were quick to let you know that they were Italian. That doesn't exist in DC at all. The equivalent of a South Philly Italian in the DC area would be, I don't know, a Southeast DC Black?
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Originally Posted by pgm123
They're like Philadelphia suburban Republicans.
No, not really. These were guys with names like Rusty and Dale. Guys who look like Rush Limbaugh or Herschel from the Walking Dead. Many are military men. I'm talking about good, God-fearing, white Christian men here. These are not ethnic whites with a conservative bent on certain issues. That's non-existent in the DC suburbs.
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Originally Posted by pgm123
I don't count that area as "DC," though. I've been there a bunch and it's very different from this area.
It's every bit as "DC area" as Rockville, Potomac, Bowie, or Fort Washington (if you think about it, it's really right across the river from Fort Washington). Why would that not be considered "DC" in your mind?
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Originally Posted by pgm123
I agree. I consider the area of Maryland south of DC (roughly south of the 39th parallel) to be pretty Southern. But DC is not like that area, nor are the immediate suburbs. That area is pretty separate--their residents don't enter DC and DC residents don't go there.
Well, that's your issue. Before DC and Arlington became super yuppie magnet centers bloated out of proportion by the federal government, more working class, conservative white people lived in the inner ring suburbs of DC. That population has largely moved on or died off in the inner suburbs, but it's still alive and kicking in the outer burbs. And it's the outer burbs of the DC Metro area that contain most of the regular families that make up the culture of an area.
The actual District of Columbia, make no mistake about it, is a culturally African American city. From Walter Washington to Marion Barry to Sharon Kelly to Anthony Williams to Adrian Fenty to Vincent Gray to Eleanor Holmes-Norton. African Americans are really the only ones who are born, raised and die there, send their kids to the schools, etc. generation after generation. Everyone else is essentially passing through.
Chicago does have far more urbanity because its much larger. But if you really break the city down, the Southside is not more urban than East Coast cities. In fact, it downright suburban. Large avenues with strip malls and box stores for miles and miles. East Coast cities don't look like this. Plus they are more compact with rowhouses. Chicago doesn't really have a lot of rowhouses. They have bungalows with driveways and flats. My Baltimore example shows you how much of that city really is. Curb, small sidewalk, three steps, someone's living room.
A lot of the southside, esp SW is like this, also the far NW side. I agree. However my point was there is still enough expanse of urbanity to go around which the only city on the East coast besides NYC that is close is Philly but out of that cluster, more of the area in Chicago is relatively safe and desirable in comparison. Personally I never go to the southside past Chinatown except to fly out of Midway or go to the Museum of Science and Industry. I do disagree that areas around the united center look suburban, where are you talking about? I used to live in the West Loop so I'm familiar with that area around Ashland and Damen and wouldn't call it suburban by any means. It's urban, and it turns into the hood real quick past Damen. NW of the area is a bunch of old industrial buildings.
Somehow, despite all those strip malls and box stores and large avenues, Chicago still has a population density of nearly 12k people / sq mi whereas Baltimore only has 7.6k people / sq mi and D.C. 10.3k people / sq mi...
if you're going to go by CD (a dubious thing in my opinion) than I suggest you post a question to the NoVa forum, asking the southerners in the forum to respond as to whether the region is southern.
Simple question.
Do you agree or disagree that there is a broad perception that the South is inferior to the North?
Do you agree or disagree that there is a broad perception that the South is inferior to the North?
Im not getting drawn into that.
Is there a broad perception that appalachia is inferior the atlantic coast? Yes . That does not demonstrate that someone denying DC is appalachian is doing so because of the inferiority perception of appalachia.
Again, go to the NoVa forum and ask the southerners there if greater DC (or Nova if you prefer) is southern.
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