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No disrespect to anyone but what makes Austin so high? Yes it is growing population wise and has a good economy but what puts it in a different place than those other citites? It seems to lack certain big city amenities that those other cities seem to have.....
Just a quick couple of bullet points that sets it apart from most cities on the list:
-Airport approaching 20 million annual passengers, with numerous trans-atlantic routes, (pre-Corona). Airport soon to be expanded to nearly double in size.
-Number of skyscrapers being built downtown, including one 800+ footer, 4 500+ footers, and around 10ish 300+footers.
-Oracle, Google, and Apple building GIANT corporate campuses/towers in Austin. Tesla building a factory.
-One of the largest and highly regarded universities in the US.
- New MLS team/ stadium being constructed.
-8 billion dollar transit proposal to be voted on in Nov, including 3 rail lines and a subway downtown.
-Consistently one of the fastest growing metros in the US. City proper just surpassed 1 million pop, with metro over 2.3 million.
-Two worldwide annual festivals, with a third worldwide annual event, (ACL, SXSW, F1 race). All of which bring in hundreds of thousands of visitors each.
Those are just a few of the things I can think of off the top of my head, that sets it aside from just about any other medium-sized metro in the South, and across the US. I understand many metros have a lot of big things going for them. Austin has many going on all at once.
Just curious, aside from numerous professional sports teams and a loop around the city, what big city amenities is Austin missing?
.... well then, tell me what should be moved where.
If part of Washington is included, all of Washington should be included, or it should all be excluded. NoVa doesn't exist in some alternate reality as if The District doesn't actually exist, so its all or nothing...
I don't care either way but if its in here, its the #1 city in the South and should relegate the Big 4 to Tier II status. I guess we can be cute and say they are all Tier I to make people feel better...
Baltimore would be Tier II...
I think my real issue is your list is all-inclusive. You can't fit 43 southern metros in 5 tiers, they arent that closely aligned, the list you've given can probably be divided into 8-10 tiers...
Your exercise isn't MSA- or CSA-specific and you hop around between deciding MSA is good for this metro, CSA is a good consideration for that one, and for DC we'll just pretend Northern Virginia is its own thing by itself...
First of all the same way you have an understanding of Birmingham as an entire metro, Tuscaloosa being an exurb and the relationship the University of Alabama has with the city of Birmingham, you have to understand that other people know other cities in similar intimate fashion...
This has been said many times over the years here and continues to persist online, but within Virginia Hampton Roads is not regarded as a higher ranking metro than Richmond. So that jumps out immediately, and just to tie in some relatability to what you know about Birmingham, both UVA and W&M are essentially considered "Richmond schools" and have been for a long time. There are a ton of specifics I can get into that I don’t have the energy to do currently...
So any listing with Hampton Roads above Richmond is revealing a paper exercise rather than a reflection of on the ground reality. To that point, Hampton Roads is nowhere close to a Tier II metro, not close. Again there's some paper tiger evaluating going on...
That said, I'm more strict on evaluating places in a different way. Hampton Roads as an entire entity isn't Tier II but Hampton Roads I also have the understanding that its actually two metros within one--->Southside (Virginia Beach/Norfolk) and Peninsula (Hampton/Newport News). Both sides can be evaluated singularly because the whole doesnt really change the stature of the entire region...
By the way, as has also been mentioned by multiple parties over the years on here, in Virginia, Virginians don't view NoVa as a place on a higher tier/higher standing than Tidewater or Richmond. Its suburban DC. It has the characteristics that suburban DC entails. Most people dont have a poor impression of it, but it isn't NoVa 1, then everyone else. That's another online misconception by nonlocals, and by closeted NoVans who either aren't actually natives of the region and/or have never spent reasonable time in Richmond or Tidewater. The money, media, and political power in VA are in NoVa and Rich, so both are ahead of Tidewater. But functionally, NoVa isn't viewed as belonging of its own god-tier by Virginians in the real world...
So let me also add that places like DFW and The Triangle can also be viewed singularly (Dallas, Fort Worth; Raleigh, Durham); Dallas is a Tier I southern city regardless of whether you are talking just MD Dallas or DFW at large, similar to how Southside HR is Tier III regardless of if its just the Southside or the entire metro. The Triangle is probably a Tier II metro taken as a whole, but its at the bottom of that tier and is the one who changes stature if subdivided; Raleigh's side of the metro isn't Tier II arguable but the entire Triangle elevates it...
I'll think outside the box. I tend to give MDs and places with functionally multilayered metros the same respect as MSAs, but just going off what you've listed, not in the order i actually have them:
Tier 1
Atlanta
Dallas-Fort Worth
Houston
South Florida
Tier 2
Austin*
Charlotte
Nashville
Orlando*
San Antonio*
Tampa Bay
Triangle NC
Tier 3
Birmingham
Hampton Roads
Jacksonville
Louisville
Memphis
New Orleans
Oklahoma City
Richmond
Tier 4
Baton Rouge, La.
Charleston, S.C.
Columbia
Knoxville, Tenn.
Little Rock
Triad NC
Tulsa
Upstate SC
Fort Worth alone would be Tier II; Raleigh, Virginia Beach alone would be Tier III; Durham, Greensboro, Winston, Greenville alone would be Tier IV; Hampton and Spartanburg alone could make the case as Tier V though if you're gonna include them you have to start considering places like Fayetteville NC that you've left off your list entirely, and therein lies the problem with including so many cities...
You've got places that have smaller economies and/or populations than Fayetteville on here, probably because those places have more of a brand and reputation. I'm not necessarily arguing that Fayetteville is Tier V, but have you been to Spartanburg and Newport News? Those cities (taken as the realistic metros of those cities on the ground) and Fayetteville are along the same vein period, marginal separation, you have to include them as part of their larger regions to accurately say they are greater cities than Fayetteville...
You can't just have a Tier V and throw any semi-popular city in there without actually considering all characteristics...
So let me also add that places like DFW and The Triangle can also be viewed singularly (Dallas, Fort Worth; Raleigh, Durham); Dallas is a Tier I southern city regardless of whether you are talking just MD Dallas or DFW at large, similar to how Southside HR is Tier III regardless of if its just the Southside or the entire metro. The Triangle is probably a Tier II metro taken as a whole, but its at the bottom of that tier and is the one who changes stature if subdivided; Raleigh's side of the metro isn't Tier II arguable but the entire Triangle elevates it...
I'll think outside the box. I tend to give MDs and places with functionally multilayered metros the same respect as MSAs, but just going off what you've listed, not in the order i actually have them:
Tier 1
Atlanta
Dallas-Fort Worth
Houston
South Florida
Tier 2
Austin*
Charlotte
Nashville
Orlando*
San Antonio*
Tampa Bay
Triangle NC
Tier 3
Birmingham
Hampton Roads
Jacksonville
Louisville
Memphis
New Orleans
Oklahoma City
Richmond
Tier 4
Baton Rouge, La.
Charleston, S.C.
Columbia
Knoxville, Tenn.
Little Rock
Triad NC
Tulsa
Upstate SC
Fort Worth alone would be Tier II; Raleigh, Virginia Beach alone would be Tier III; Durham, Greensboro, Winston, Greenville alone would be Tier IV; Hampton and Spartanburg alone could make the case as Tier V though if you're gonna include them you have to start considering places like Fayetteville NC that you've left off your list entirely, and therein lies the problem with including so many cities...
You've got places that have smaller economies and/or populations than Fayetteville on here, probably because those places have more of a brand and reputation. I'm not necessarily arguing that Fayetteville is Tier V, but have you been to Spartanburg and Newport News? Those cities (taken as the realistic metros of those cities on the ground) and Fayetteville are along the same vein period, marginal separation, you have to include them as part of their larger regions to accurately say they are greater cities than Fayetteville...
You can't just have a Tier V and throw any semi-popular city in there without actually considering all characteristics...
The thinking behind this is solid, and I'm assuming that you created these tiers alphabetically?
So let me also add that places like DFW and The Triangle can also be viewed singularly (Dallas, Fort Worth; Raleigh, Durham); Dallas is a Tier I southern city regardless of whether you are talking just MD Dallas or DFW at large, similar to how Southside HR is Tier III regardless of if its just the Southside or the entire metro. The Triangle is probably a Tier II metro taken as a whole, but its at the bottom of that tier and is the one who changes stature if subdivided; Raleigh's side of the metro isn't Tier II arguable but the entire Triangle elevates it...
I'll think outside the box. I tend to give MDs and places with functionally multilayered metros the same respect as MSAs, but just going off what you've listed, not in the order i actually have them:
Tier 1
Atlanta
Dallas-Fort Worth
Houston
South Florida
Tier 2
Austin*
Charlotte
Nashville
Orlando*
San Antonio*
Tampa Bay
Triangle NC
Tier 3
Birmingham
Hampton Roads
Jacksonville
Louisville
Memphis
New Orleans
Oklahoma City
Richmond
Tier 4
Baton Rouge, La.
Charleston, S.C.
Columbia
Knoxville, Tenn.
Little Rock
Triad NC
Tulsa
Upstate SC
Fort Worth alone would be Tier II; Raleigh, Virginia Beach alone would be Tier III; Durham, Greensboro, Winston, Greenville alone would be Tier IV; Hampton and Spartanburg alone could make the case as Tier V though if you're gonna include them you have to start considering places like Fayetteville NC that you've left off your list entirely, and therein lies the problem with including so many cities...
You've got places that have smaller economies and/or populations than Fayetteville on here, probably because those places have more of a brand and reputation. I'm not necessarily arguing that Fayetteville is Tier V, but have you been to Spartanburg and Newport News? Those cities (taken as the realistic metros of those cities on the ground) and Fayetteville are along the same vein period, marginal separation, you have to include them as part of their larger regions to accurately say they are greater cities than Fayetteville...
You can't just have a Tier V and throw any semi-popular city in there without actually considering all characteristics...
So let me also add that places like DFW and The Triangle can also be viewed singularly (Dallas, Fort Worth; Raleigh, Durham); Dallas is a Tier I southern city regardless of whether you are talking just MD Dallas or DFW at large, similar to how Southside HR is Tier III regardless of if its just the Southside or the entire metro. The Triangle is probably a Tier II metro taken as a whole, but its at the bottom of that tier and is the one who changes stature if subdivided; Raleigh's side of the metro isn't Tier II arguable but the entire Triangle elevates it...
I'll think outside the box. I tend to give MDs and places with functionally multilayered metros the same respect as MSAs, but just going off what you've listed, not in the order i actually have them:
Tier 1
Atlanta
Dallas-Fort Worth
Houston
South Florida
Tier 2
Austin*
Charlotte
Nashville
Orlando*
San Antonio*
Tampa Bay
Triangle NC
Tier 3
Birmingham
Hampton Roads
Jacksonville
Louisville
Memphis
New Orleans
Oklahoma City
Richmond
Tier 4
Baton Rouge, La.
Charleston, S.C.
Columbia
Knoxville, Tenn.
Little Rock
Triad NC
Tulsa
Upstate SC
Fort Worth alone would be Tier II; Raleigh, Virginia Beach alone would be Tier III; Durham, Greensboro, Winston, Greenville alone would be Tier IV; Hampton and Spartanburg alone could make the case as Tier V though if you're gonna include them you have to start considering places like Fayetteville NC that you've left off your list entirely, and therein lies the problem with including so many cities...
You've got places that have smaller economies and/or populations than Fayetteville on here, probably because those places have more of a brand and reputation. I'm not necessarily arguing that Fayetteville is Tier V, but have you been to Spartanburg and Newport News? Those cities (taken as the realistic metros of those cities on the ground) and Fayetteville are along the same vein period, marginal separation, you have to include them as part of their larger regions to accurately say they are greater cities than Fayetteville...
You can't just have a Tier V and throw any semi-popular city in there without actually considering all characteristics...
Chattanooga is an interesting case. It has an MSA of 565K but the CSA jumps to just over 1M with the addition of two very small MSAs, both of which are between 100-150K, and four micropolitan areas under 100K. I wouldn't call it a multinodal region in the same vein as the Triangle, Triad, Upstate, HR, etc., but it's also something a little more than just a city surrounded by suburbs. I think this is enough to put it in Tier 4 regionally with Chattanooga itself being more Tier 5.
Quote:
Originally Posted by Columbus1984
No Columbus, GA?
Tier 5 along with others like Macon, Tallahassee, Shreveport, Myrtle Beach, Pensacola, Charleston, WV, Corpus Christi, Tri-Cities, etc.
There are a TON of other Tier 5 cities for sure. I'll add to your list Fayetteville (NC), Naples, Wilmington, Cape Coral/Ft Myers, Jackson....
Then there's the string of highly populated decentralized MSA's along Florida's East Coast between Miami and Jacksonville. Those are more highly populated than probably a lot of folks know.
There are a TON of other Tier 5 cities for sure. I'll add to you list Fayetteville (NC), Naples, Wilmington, Cape Coral/Ft Myers, Jackson....
Then there's the string of highly populated decentralized MSA's along Florida's East Coast between Miami and Jacksonville. Those are more highly populated than probably a lot of folks know.
Yeah, most of peninsular Florida's smaller metros are an unknown entity to me. Several consist of 20th century master-planned communities catering almost exclusively to retirees. Daytona and Lakeland are the only ones I know a little something about.
Asheville and Roanoke could easily be in Tier 5. Knoxville seems a little bigger (Tier 4?) but I've never been there and can't say for sure. There's Bristol/Kingsport/Johnson City in Tennessee, as well. Combine those three cities together and I'm sure it would fit in Tier 5.
Practically all of West Virginia's larger cities could fit in Tier 5, too. Charleston, Huntington, etc.
Asheville and Roanoke could easily be in Tier 5. Knoxville seems a little bigger (Tier 4?) but I've never been there and can't say for sure. There's Bristol/Kingsport/Johnson City in Tennessee, as well. Combine those three cities together and I'm sure it would fit in Tier 5.
Practically all of West Virginia's larger cities could fit in Tier 5, too. Charleston, Huntington, etc.
Knoxville is Tier 4. I agree with the others as Tier 5.
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