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Since you combined Raleigh with Durham and Greenville with Spartanburg, I think you should've also combined Greensboro with Winston-Salem and then had it in Tier 3. And I agree with the others that Chattanooga should be in Tier 4. Tier 5 should include metro areas like Gainesville and Tallahassee FL, Roanoke VA, Lexington KY, and the Mississippi coast.
Thank you!
I knew, as I said in my post, that I would miss a few.
Last edited by tmullen99; 09-05-2020 at 07:35 PM..
Tier 1
Atlanta
Dallas-Fort Worth
Houston
South Florida (Miami/Ft. Lauderdale/Boca Raton)*
Tier 2
Austin*
Charlotte
Hampton Roads (Norfolk/Va.Beach/Newport News)*
Nashville
Northern Virginia (If this can be considered separate enough from D.C. to be listed)*
Orlando*
Raleigh-Durham
San Antonio*
Tampa-St. Petersburg*
Tier 3
Birmingham
Jacksonville
Louisville
Memphis
New Orleans
Oklahoma City
Richmond
Tulsa
Tier 5
Augusta, Ga.
Chattanooga, Tenn.
Columbia, S.C.
Columbus, Ga.
Little Rock, Ark.
Jackson, Miss.
Macon, Ga.
Mobile, Ala.
Montgomery, Ala.
Northwest Arkansas
Pensacola, Fla.
Shreveport, La.
1) I probably missed a few cities/metros/CSAs. These are all the one's I had off the top of my head. If you're thinking of a city I missed. You can probably figure out where I would place said city based on how I placed others in my ranking
2) Population is the main factor in ranking but amenities, shopping, dining, quality of life, access to major sports (to me, pro sports and major NCAA power programs are about the same) etc... were also huge factors in why I ranked cities the way I did.
3) * = cities I don't really consider "Southern"
4) Places I've listed are in alphabetical order and is not any kind of judgement of what area is at the top or bottom of a tier.
Curious as to your thinking of putting Hampton Roads in the same tier as an Austin, Charlotte and Nashville? I guess I would tend to put some of your Tier 3 cities (such as Louisville and Memphis) ahead of Hampton Roads, or at least on par.
Curious as to your thinking of putting Hampton Roads in the same tier as an Austin, Charlotte and Nashville? I guess I would tend to put some of your Tier 3 cities (such as Louisville and Memphis) ahead of Hampton Roads, or at least on par.
I haven’t done a lot of research on Hampton Roads and it does seem to be kind of the sleeper of the south when it comes to word of mouth but it does have 1.7 million people in its MSA ... not quite the size of Austin, or Charlotte, decently close to Nashville... but it’s fairly in range. I think it fits kind of between Tier 2 and Tier 3 ... Tier 2.5
Curious as to your thinking of putting Hampton Roads in the same tier as an Austin, Charlotte and Nashville? I guess I would tend to put some of your Tier 3 cities (such as Louisville and Memphis) ahead of Hampton Roads, or at least on par.
Its borderline. Would be the first metro in Tier Four if it were there. 1.8 million is larger than every other Tier 4 metro. Right below Nashville (1.9 million) which most would consider a SOLID tier 3 city (yes, I do realize Nashville's county music ambiance/tourism is a big factor that makes it pull slightly above its weight class) Hampton Roads is also growing at over 3% which is respectable. Expect it to hit 2 million soon enough.
I can understand for economic and population reasons why New Orleans is in tier 3, but it offers much of the same amenities that tier 2 cities do, some more.
I see your argument. I will say that I have Columbia and 'Nooga at the top of Tier 5. So I could also see it at the bottom of Tier 4. To me, there is a gap... not large but noticeable... between say... Chattanooga and Huntsville or Columbia and Greenville-Spartanburg. I also am aware I've missed some cities. As people inform me of the one's I've omitted, I add them to my list.
Columbia belongs in the upper half of Tier 4. It differs from Greenville/Spartanburg in that, like most of the other cities on the list, it is the only principal city in its metro; the delta between its MSA and CSA (which is nearing 1M) populations is less than 200K. Greenville's metro is actually the Greenville-Anderson MSA while Spartanburg has its own MSA but is included in the larger CSA. There's about a 500K or so gap between Columbia's and Greenville/Spartanburg's CSAs which is definitely sizable for regions their size. The Triad of NC is the only CSA larger than the SC Upstate in Tier 4 (but I think it's okay to consider Greensboro and Winston-Salem individually), and after that is Knoxville's just above 1M. Chattanooga's and Columbia's would be next, each being between 900K-1M.
The only gap between Chattanooga and Huntsville would be an economical one due to the high-tech/STEM-oriented nature of Huntsville's local economy primarily. Chattanooga more than makes up for that everywhere else IMO (tourism, infrastructure, amenities, population, etc).
I can understand for economic and population reasons why New Orleans is in tier 3, but it offers much of the same amenities that tier 2 cities do, some more.
I disagree. New Orleans is tier 3. What amenities besides from region specific local shops/boutiques can you find in New Orleans that you can’t find in say... Birmingham or Memphis? (Two fellow Southern legacy cities/metros I see as interchangeable with NOLA.) Yes I can shop at Saks on Canal Street in New Orleans... but I can also shop at Saks at the Summit in Birmingham. I believe Tulsa also has a Saks and Jacksonville has a Saks and a Nordstrom. I have family in New Orleans so I’m there pretty often. New Orleans has the tourism thing going on with Bourbon Street and such but Memphis has Beale Street. Plus, I’m not aware of any area of New Orleans as nice and exclusive as say Nocatee in the Jacksonville area or Birmingham’s Mountain Brook.
Once you put New Orleans in tier 2... then you’re competing against Charlotte, Nashville, Austin, Orlando, Tampa-St. Petersburg.... NOLA isn’t in the same league as those cities.
Last edited by tmullen99; 09-06-2020 at 09:49 AM..
Tier 1
Atlanta
Dallas-Fort Worth
Houston
South Florida (Miami/Ft. Lauderdale/Boca Raton)*
Tier 2
Austin*
Charlotte
Hampton Roads (Norfolk/Va.Beach/Newport News)*
Nashville
Northern Virginia (If this can be considered separate enough from D.C. to be listed)*
Orlando*
Raleigh-Durham
San Antonio*
Tampa-St. Petersburg*
Tier 3
Birmingham
Jacksonville
Louisville
Memphis
New Orleans
Oklahoma City
Richmond
Tulsa
Tier 5
Augusta, Ga.
Chattanooga, Tenn.
Columbia, S.C.
Columbus, Ga.
Little Rock, Ark.
Jackson, Miss.
Macon, Ga.
Mobile, Ala.
Montgomery, Ala.
Northwest Arkansas
Pensacola, Fla.
Shreveport, La.
1) I probably missed a few cities/metros/CSAs. These are all the one's I had off the top of my head. If you're thinking of a city I missed. You can probably figure out where I would place said city based on how I placed others in my ranking
2) Population is the main factor in ranking but amenities, shopping, dining, quality of life, access to major sports (to me, pro sports and major NCAA power programs are about the same) etc... were also huge factors in why I ranked cities the way I did.
3) * = cities I don't really consider "Southern"
4) Places I've listed are in alphabetical order and is not any kind of judgement of what area is at the top or bottom of a tier.
.... well then, tell me what should be moved where. I think it’s pretty consistent. I don’t see how anyone can argue against the cities I’ve listed in Tier 1 belonging there. Charlotte is a very clear “the first city in Tier 2/5th largest metro in the South”. All of the rest of the Tier 2 cities are right at 2 million in the metro or somewhere above that until you get to Charlotte. For clarity, I’ll say that I’d have South Florida (Miami) at the bottom of Tier 1 and that’s a sizable gap from Charlotte if you look at metro population alone. The Tier 3 cities are all between 1 and 1.8 million or so. Only real arguments I’ve heard so far is where I placed cities in Tiers 4 and 5. Cities like Asheville, Charleston and Savannah who would be in Tier 5 based on population alone, got bumped up to Tier 4 due to having a lot of amenities (upscale shopping and dining) and a high quality of life in comparison to other cities their size. For example, yes I listed Jackson, Miss. in Tier 5. Jackson has a higher metro population than Asheville and Savannah and is about dead even with Charleston, but would get blown away by all 3 if you compare the amenities offered in each place. Jackson has nothing like King Street in Charleston, Broughton Street in Savannah, or Downtown Asheville.
Last edited by tmullen99; 09-06-2020 at 10:29 AM..
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