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the last two- i think in all likelihood- will happen within 25 years.
I want all three in ten.
Quote:
Originally Posted by mwj119
You don't like waiting in line at the same 10 bars in Southie every weekend!?
Yea, I guess it's a cultural experience that might be good to shoot a couple of documentaries and a newshour special before we start going wild with the liquor licenses.
Yea, I guess it's a cultural experience that might be good to shoot a couple of documentaries and a newshour special before we start going wild with the liquor licenses.
The MBTA operating as Regional Rail? Electrified? lol, I wouldn't count on it.
The MBTA operating as Regional Rail? Electrified? lol, I wouldn't count on it.
MBTA is an absolute mess.
It may be up to you to come in and save it. Be the change you want to see in the world. You can do it! You're the chosen one for a Massachusetts, look at that username. You choo-chose Massachusetts, now it's time to do the honorable thing.
To be fair, I also think it's a lot easier to get that full on RER system for the Boston region than it is for the Bay Area. The BART is a weird, very much lesser version of that and hard to expand. It also can't work with much of the other rail systems in the area because it's got a real weird gauge. However, it's also such a large system that trying to shut it down to re-gauge would likely be too horribly expensive and disruptive. MBTA's issue is people and politics and that's something that at least has the possibility of the starts aligning and things working out well enough for a long enough period of time. Likely? Hard to tell, but at least in the realm of possibilities. Rail in the Bay Area though also has the people and politics issue and is even worse with the balkanization of the many, many agencies themselves, and then, *on top of those issues* there's that weird goddamn gauge.
It may be up to you to come in and save it. Be the change you want to see in the world. You can do it! You're the chosen one for a Massachusetts, look at that username. You choo-chose Massachusetts, now it's time to do the honorable thing.
To be fair, I also think it's a lot easier to get that full on RER system for the Boston region than it is for the Bay Area. The BART is a weird, very much lesser version of that and hard to expand. It also can't work with much of the other rail systems in the area because it's got a real weird gauge. However, it's also such a large system that trying to shut it down to re-gauge would likely be too horribly expensive and disruptive. MBTA's issue is people and politics and that's something that at least has the possibility of the starts aligning and things working out well enough for a long enough period of time. Likely? Hard to tell, but at least in the realm of possibilities. Rail in the Bay Area though also has the people and politics issue and is even worse with the balkanization of the many, many agencies themselves, and then, *on top of those issues* there's that weird goddamn gauge.
lol dude I'm a Planner in New Jersey, I don't have any desire to go back up there until the Old-New England anti-change attitude wanes down. We can't even get the governor to end the prohibition on drink specials. The CR doesn't run past 11pm, the T continues to fall even after shutdowns and repairs.
Boston could easily make the CR an RER. However, they chose not too. Its now in the plans for 2063. 10 years ago, they said by 2030.
I get what you are saying and I really wish they would do that. However, it will take them 10 years just to make the Blue-Red Line connected. I bring up NJ because its a really good comparison. Dense part, beaches on the other, remoteness elsewhere... roughy the same size. NJTransit is light years better than the MBTA.
As a native New Englander, I just feel defeated by the MBTA and MassDOT.
Last edited by masssachoicetts; 10-05-2022 at 01:43 PM..
The actual issue they’ve found is the commuter rail is really unaffordable to the vast majority of people who live in those gateway cities. They just can’t afford to use it.
Very true. Someone who is having a hard time making $1200/mo rent is not likely to drop $350-400 on a commuter rail pass. I'd personally be all in favor of discounted (or free) passes for people of certain income levels, but that's a nonstarter with the "welfare is awful!" crowd.
Quote:
Originally Posted by BostonBornMassMade
A couple things. Ron’s bowling and ice cream is about a 50 second walk from Zaz so you could do that- absolutely, there’s also Meigs Field a major historical site in Hyde Park not to far from there. And more greasy pizza slices than I care to count. What it’s lacking really are college students and childless people with disposable incomes. It’s just a more family oriented vibe and it definitely closes earlier because of that so the late night part is dead.
I definitely agree later hours is huge and liquor licenses is huge but Boston as a city has been trying it’s the old time townies who fear crime that don’t want late night and the suburban state legislature that won’t remove or even think about removing a cap on liquor licenses- again fear of crime. Hence the safest big MSA in the USA. Boston does a lot to prevent the possibility of crime to the very obvious detriment of vibrancy.
But really the way tourist interact with Boston is different. It’s not just residents. Tourist will drive all around LA and Houston but most won’t drive 15-20 minutes south of the common. They won’t go to Chelsea they won’t go to Revere Beach they won’t go to Malcolm Xs house in Roxbury. It’s not just the Eastern MA Bubble but it’s the type of person that visits Boston- and what that demographics interest are. Things are there, but I think the Boston tourist or visitor is not albeit in getting scantily clad and sunburnt on the beach or visiting Malcolm xs house or eating pupusas. It’s a person that want to walk the freedom trail, see high art at the MFA and watch baseball at Fenway. It’s not really all Bostons fault.
I'm not saying that there's nothing to do in Hyde Park. I'm just pointing out that in order for a non-central neighborhood to really attract people from outside of the neighborhood (residents or tourists), it really has to offer quite a bit. Hence the Davis example (which still doesn't get a ton of tourists). Davis is an outlier compared to most neighborhoods - Hyde Park (or almost any other outer neighborhood) doesn't really compare in terms of what it offers an outsider that would incentivize a trip across town.
But you're right - the concentration of affluence and students are a big contributing factor to the activity in Davis (and the lack of activity in Hyde Park). Tough to change that without either a college campus nearby and/or a better transit connection.
You're also right that people interact with the city differently. I think the biggest difference is that parking and navigation in Boston is intimidating. Sure, you're going to sit in an absurd amount of traffic in LA or Houston, but you're probably not going to get lost (and if you miss a turn, you can easily correct), and when you eventually get to your destination, you'll be able to park relatively easily (and affordably, if not free). The rest of the issue, in my opinion, is marketing and reputation. Boston's been touted as a destination for high culture and sports for decades. It's never been advertised as a multicultural hub (beyond having a Chinatown and Little Italy in the North End), and nobody thinks of it as such. Boston's Black History is overshadowed by both its racist reputation and the more well-known stuff (colonial history, high culture, seafood, etc.). It may not be all Boston's fault, but it's going to take a long time to change that. Hopefully Wu's efforts help.
lol dude I'm a Planner in New Jersey, I don't have any desire to go back up there until the Old-New England anti-change attitude wanes down. We can't even get the governor to end the prohibition on drink specials. The CR doesn't run past 11pm, the T continues to fall even after shutdowns and repairs.
Boston could easily make the CR an RER. However, they chose not too. Its now in the plans for 2063. 10 years ago, they said by 2030.
I get what you are saying and I really wish they would do that. However, it will take them 10 years just to make the Blue-Red Line connected. I bring up NJ because its a really good comparison. Dense part, beaches on the other, remoteness elsewhere... roughy the same size. NJTransit is light years better than the MBTA.
As a native New Englander, I just feel defeated by the MBTA and MassDOT.
Yea, that's rough. I'm joking, of course, but it would be nice if somehow you were in a position to and able to clean up house at MBTA / MassDOT.
Very true. Someone who is having a hard time making $1200/mo rent is not likely to drop $350-400 on a commuter rail pass. I'd personally be all in favor of discounted (or free) passes for people of certain income levels, but that's a nonstarter with the "welfare is awful!" crowd.
Supposedly going S-Bahn/RER helps with the commuter rail costs. Electrification generally means much cheaper operating expenses and through-running means efficiency. Having the sunk costs of rolling stock and stations and tracks being used much more often only yields a pretty small additional operating and maintenance costs while it supposedly would yield potentially far higher ridership so with all those you *can* actually start charging far, far lower costs for S-Bahn/RER than commuter rail. Really, I think for about a half dozen maybe more US cities, going RER/S-Bahn with the tracks they have in the urban area, complemented by feeder bus lines, is probably the lowest hanging fruit to having extremely good transit for a low price. It's even easier to implement and test now that there are battery electric locomotives and multiple units out there which means you can do partial electrification and have fewer NIMBY fights (whether from the direction of noise and emissions from the diesel side of things or higher upfront costs and construction time as well as "unsightly" catenary lines from the electrified side of things). It's just not something planners and pols seem to be pushing that hard in a lot of instances though.
Very true. Someone who is having a hard time making $1200/mo rent is not likely to drop $350-400 on a commuter rail pass. I'd personally be all in favor of discounted (or free) passes for people of certain income levels, but that's a nonstarter with the "welfare is awful!" crowd.
I'm not saying that there's nothing to do in Hyde Park. I'm just pointing out that in order for a non-central neighborhood to really attract people from outside of the neighborhood (residents or tourists), it really has to offer quite a bit. Hence the Davis example (which still doesn't get a ton of tourists). Davis is an outlier compared to most neighborhoods - Hyde Park (or almost any other outer neighborhood) doesn't really compare in terms of what it offers an outsider that would incentivize a trip across town.
But you're right - the concentration of affluence and students are a big contributing factor to the activity in Davis (and the lack of activity in Hyde Park). Tough to change that without either a college campus nearby and/or a better transit connection.
You're also right that people interact with the city differently. I think the biggest difference is that parking and navigation in Boston is intimidating. Sure, you're going to sit in an absurd amount of traffic in LA or Houston, but you're probably not going to get lost (and if you miss a turn, you can easily correct), and when you eventually get to your destination, you'll be able to park relatively easily (and affordably, if not free). The rest of the issue, in my opinion, is marketing and reputation. Boston's been touted as a destination for high culture and sports for decades. It's never been advertised as a multicultural hub (beyond having a Chinatown and Little Italy in the North End), and nobody thinks of it as such. Boston's Black History is overshadowed by both its racist reputation and the more well-known stuff (colonial history, high culture, seafood, etc.). It may not be all Boston's fault, but it's going to take a long time to change that. Hopefully Wu's efforts help.
I think students and reputation is way more important. They’re AMPLE parking in outer Boston, ample. There’s a Municipal free parking lot quite literally right across the street from Zaz, and there’s one in Roslindale square, and one in fields corner, and in grove hall. They even exist in JP. Really part of Boston affordability Rl crisis is all the parking. Drive down morissey boulevard or Freeport street- absolute SEA of parking lots. As forgetting loss we all have gps and people manage to rave about Street culture and out neighborhoods in cities in Europe and Asia- if you try even just a little you can do the same domestically.
But just because tourists don’t do multicultural or outer Boston- doesn’t mean it’s not there. Still have to count it in a comparison scenario. People may choose to interact just with students/colleges, high culture and Fenway but that doesn’t mean other areas are weak and I don’t think we should judge as such. I never engage in that stuff when I visit nor when I lived there. I understand I’m somewhat in the minority here but yea..it needs to be said
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