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That is a *very* promising start that the Bowdoin stop has both a loop and long tail tracks already going under. If that's the case, then maybe it's not so crazy for it to be operational by 2030 as it can conceivably be done without much disruption to the current Blue Line service. I'm curious if there have been any proposals to route the Blue Line even further past MGH, and if so, what the proposals have been.
I can understand doing just one extended past to North Station rather than one to North Station and Haymarket. I do recall that there were services being turned around at Haymarket, but didn't realize it was a switch rather than a loop--that's too bad as then every Green Line service would then have a one seat ride to every one of the heavy rail rapid transit lines. I think not extending at least one to North Station is weird, because it's a major hub where you'd expect there'd be some ridership from each of the Green Line services and meanwhile the additional frequency on the Green Line for the shared trunk going southbound would be useful.
To my knowledge, there have been no "official" proposals beyond Charles MGH in recent years. But there has been transit geek/fantasy pitches about continuing it to Watertown Square via Back Bay, BU, and Lower Allston. Probably a "not in my lifetime" type thing.
I wouldn't rule out a change to North Station terminating lines it out if demand warrants it, or if it somehow improves service with vehicle movement, since it's not hard to do. But two branches passing through North Station, along with the Orange Line overlap, really seems to be enough. Switching at Kenmore, Copley, or Park St. is straightforward and the frequencies are good enough that you never really have to wait long. When I lived in Back of the Hill, I generally got off at Symphony and switched to Orange Line to get to work near North Station even though the E went all the way. It was easily 15 minutes faster than the one seat ride since it's rapid heavy rail vs. light rail in 120 year old tunnels. Other branches have the same option at Back Bay/Copley (also Boylston/Chinatown and Park/DTX though those are so close it doesn't make much of a difference). Of all of my T gripes, this really isn't one of them. We'll see what they end up doing long term though.
Quote:
Originally Posted by masssachoicetts
I am assuming that if the Red Line goes North, they would have to tunnel it. From what I've read in the past, the Red Line extension to Lexington through Arlington that never came to fruition's path has been filled in as a public walk/multimodal path. My biggest question for any Red Line extension would be ROW.
I think the MBTA should be working on the Fairmount Line Conversion, seems like a rather no brainer.
I think it would likely run along Route 2 rather than via tunnel. Maybe a combination of the two modes (cut/cover tunneling under parts of the Minuteman wouldn't be nearly as expensive as boring a deeper tunnel) . Of all of the extensions touted, this one seems to be the lowest priority.
Not at all surprising. Hopefully Boston's upward trajectory can continue without succumbing to the things that are ruining SF (out of control homeless situation, rampant property crime, hyper gentrification and displacement in working class areas, etc).
Not at all surprising. Hopefully Boston's upward trajectory can continue without succumbing to the things that are ruining SF (out of control homeless situation, rampant property crime, hyper gentrification and displacement in working class areas, etc).
Boston already got a ton of issues in that realm and others tbh. Desite how some talk about it on C-D 9and i really have no one in mind here)- Boston in October 2022 doesn't have a particularly rosy portrait. It's not terrible but there a lot of political and right-wing extremism inserting itself into online spaces and harassing the mayor. There are serious concerns about Bostons Public Schools, a recent surge in crime, instability at the District Attorney involving all sorts of shadiness and ethics violations, real estate market is legitimately inflated and unpredictable right now.
Aside from COVID this is the most tenuous time I've sen the city on par with what I remember from 2008-2012. Everyone just looked a that as a matter of time. The things in Boston right now seem like issues of identity, respect, sustainability, planning and the future. Everything is a battleground it seems.
Declining public school performance ongoing since 2014. NAEP levels are at their lowest point since 2003.
Chronic Absenteeism
Sharp increase in School Violence since the removal of school police a few years ago
Increasing office AND lab space vacancies
Feelings of safety declining (crime is stagnant)
Possibly population Loss
Ongoing months-long drugging/roofie crises in the nightclubs/college areas
Political Fighting, like actual fisfights, numerous times. Arrests have been made.
Gentrification and Displacement
MBTA in federal oversight/crisis mode
Mass and Cass homeless encampment/fentanyl rec area
Not trying to downplay those issues because they're certainly problematic, but I don't think they're unique to Boston-- they're 2022 issues that can be found to varying degrees in places across the country.
The grass is always greener, but I can tell you that there's a palpable sense of doom and gloom in SF and the Bay Area that reminds me of the very same era you mentioned: the Great Recession. I try not to pay too much attention to the whiners and complainers because they've always been around, but it's getting harder and harder to tune out and ignore.
Unfortunately, I think things are going to have to get worse before they get better, so for many of us our only option is to ride out the storm and try and stay optimistic, regardless if you're in Boston, SF, wherever.
Not trying to downplay those issues because they're certainly problematic, but I don't think they're unique to Boston-- they're 2022 issues that can be found to varying degrees in places across the country.
The grass is always greener, but I can tell you that there's a palpable sense of doom and gloom in SF and the Bay Area that reminds me of the very same era you mentioned: the Great Recession. I try not to pay too much attention to the whiners and complainers because they've always been around, but it's getting harder and harder to tune out and ignore.
Unfortunately, I think things are going to have to get worse before they get better, so for many of us our only option is to ride out the storm and try and stay optimistic, regardless if you're in Boston, SF, wherever.
Some are national, some are more intense there from the data I’ve seen. Particularly the extent of their NAEP decline. It’s because Bosotn didn’t start declining on the NAEP Recently… it started 8 years ago and I’ve watched other big cities school districts leapfrog Boston even before COVID.
Those things and intensity the of Mass and Cass, the gentrification and displacement and the harassment/stalking of the mayor which has resulted in city ordinances, cancelled press conferences and arrests. In Boston those things seem to be more heightened than most places. The MBTA is also the only major city subway system under federal oversight right now. And the Migrant Surge isn’t really a national issue more so just the border and a few liberal cities.
Everything you listed in SF is a national issue too. What differentiates it is the intensity of the issues.
i sometimes wonder how far Boston/Cambridge/Somerville is behind San Francisco
in office/lab total sq ft ....as in how many years behind.
i would guess: Boston by 2025 is SF ~2005-2008.
a worthless guess.
Does Boston out to the Rt 128 ring surpass SF?
I know OP said try to follow criteria, but…I can end that debate with the weather. Nothing else is that important. I despise winter with the fury of a thousand suns, and I’d put up with a LOT to have Bay Area weather.
That said, having grown up in the Bay Area, I’m also a lifelong loyalist to it. It’s always home to me.
I grew up thinking, mostly because of my parents, that San Francisco was just a better version of Boston (Cleaner, Nicer, better weather, nicer people, etc)... so my perception of SF is definitely skewed from my early 00s upbringing.
But in the past 7 years and upon a recent visit, I was more underwhelmed with SF. It just got too expensive for what it is.
I think SF, to me atleast, is like a city that is 10 years ahead of Boston in a lot of things. I think SF is a good model for Boston on how not to grow (Or lack of ...) and develop. It feels like the soul of SF was sucked out and replaced with Corporate and Tech bros. WHile I get development in the past 20 years has been like that, Boston is quickly following pursuit.
I grew up thinking, mostly because of my parents, that San Francisco was just a better version of Boston (Cleaner, Nicer, better weather, nicer people, etc)... so my perception of SF is definitely skewed from my early 00s upbringing.
I was in SF and the Bay for a while in 2011 and that is what it was. Still seemed to expensive and not as diverse as advertised though.
I prefer the Bay area over the Boston Area, for sure. But I prefer Boston over SF, for sure.
I was in SF and the Bay for a while in 2011 and that is what it was. Still seemed to expensive and not as diverse as advertised though.
I prefer the Bay area over the Boston Area, for sure. But I prefer Boston over SF, for sure.
I'll agree with this. SF lost points since COVID, where Boston bounced back.
But yeah... Bay Area>>Greater Boston anyday.
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