Why Is Downtown Cleveland Building Small Buildings (Euclid, Washington: 2014, apartments)

[reretarff]

I have lived in Cleveland for all my life and enjoy going downtown very frequently, but after hearing and reading about new proposals for downtown Cleveland's development building wise, I am not very impressed. Some of the proposed buildings I think are cool like the convention center hotel and the flats east bank project, but it's some proposals for smaller, 4-10 floor buildings to be built downtown that make me upset. It should be illegal to build a building downtown that is less than 10 stories. Downtown is supposed to have sky scrapers, but come on, a 5 floor building? It's inappropriate.


Also, I would like someone to answer me, why is Cleveland not doing anything with the empty space surrounding downtown? I feel like downtown ends exactly on East 13th street, goes down to Chester Avenue, and then ends again on East 17th street. On one side of the street there's a 20+ story sky scraper, and on the other side a parking lot, followed by old abandoned factories and warehouses. This goes on toward the freeway, and even up until University Circle. Back in the 1940's, these areas were full of the same type of sky scrapers as on Euclid Avenue in the center of downtown. Now, it looks ugly. I hope somebody would please answer this for me.

[bjimmy24]

Originally Posted by reretarff

I have lived in Cleveland for all my life and enjoy going downtown very frequently, but after hearing and reading about new proposals for downtown Cleveland's development building wise, I am not very impressed. Some of the proposed buildings I think are cool like the convention center hotel and the flats east bank project, but it's some proposals for smaller, 4-10 floor buildings to be built downtown that make me upset. It should be illegal to build a building downtown that is less than 10 stories. Downtown is supposed to have sky scrapers, but come on, a 5 floor building? It's inappropriate.


Also, I would like someone to answer me, why is Cleveland not doing anything with the empty space surrounding downtown? I feel like downtown ends exactly on East 13th street, goes down to Chester Avenue, and then ends again on East 17th street. On one side of the street there's a 20+ story sky scraper, and on the other side a parking lot, followed by old abandoned factories and warehouses. This goes on toward the freeway, and even up until University Circle. Back in the 1940's, these areas were full of the same type of sky scrapers as on Euclid Avenue in the center of downtown. Now, it looks ugly. I hope somebody would please answer this for me.

This is bound to be an enlightening thread.

[Cleverfield]

Originally Posted by reretarff

I have lived in Cleveland for all my life and enjoy going downtown very frequently, but after hearing and reading about new proposals for downtown Cleveland's development building wise, I am not very impressed. Some of the proposed buildings I think are cool like the convention center hotel and the flats east bank project, but it's some proposals for smaller, 4-10 floor buildings to be built downtown that make me upset. It should be illegal to build a building downtown that is less than 10 stories. Downtown is supposed to have sky scrapers, but come on, a 5 floor building? It's inappropriate.


Also, I would like someone to answer me, why is Cleveland not doing anything with the empty space surrounding downtown? I feel like downtown ends exactly on East 13th street, goes down to Chester Avenue, and then ends again on East 17th street. On one side of the street there's a 20+ story sky scraper, and on the other side a parking lot, followed by old abandoned factories and warehouses. This goes on toward the freeway, and even up until University Circle. Back in the 1940's, these areas were full of the same type of sky scrapers as on Euclid Avenue in the center of downtown. Now, it looks ugly. I hope somebody would please answer this for me.

Because this is what happens when you promote development as symbols of opulence rather than allow for private enterprise:

http://www.nytimes.com/interactive/2...in-brazil.html

Now would you rather have tall buildings designed by famed architects that become abandoned because no one really ever intended to fill them, or would you rather have a downtown full of 5-10 story buildings that are occupied, create jobs, generate taxes, and contribute to the economy?

[Cleveland_Collector]

Downtown Cleveland doesn't build buildings. Developers do.

[reretarff]

Originally Posted by Cleverfield

Because this is what happens when you promote development as symbols of opulence rather than allow for private enterprise:

http://www.nytimes.com/interactive/2...in-brazil.html

Now would you rather have tall buildings designed by famed architects that become abandoned because no one really ever intended to fill them, or would you rather have a downtown full of 5-10 story buildings that are occupied, create jobs, generate taxes, and contribute to the economy?

There is a large need for buildings downtown right now, mostly for apartments and retail. This isn't Detroit, we don't have abandoned sky scrapers. Now, there is almost never a time where 100% of the apartments, retail and offices in downtown are occupied, but over all, most buildings downtown are currently occupied. I'm pretty sure the size of the building won't really effect the amount of people who occupy it, but usually, most people flock to the bigger, newer buildings. More sky scrapers = better downtown.

[reretarff]

Originally Posted by Cleveland_Collector

Downtown Cleveland doesn't build buildings. Developers do.

Sorry for the wording, but the city workers (Political) I meant.

[reretarff]

Originally Posted by bjimmy24

This is bound to be an enlightening thread.

Why the face palm?

[costello_musicman]

Originally Posted by reretarff

Also, I would like someone to answer me, why is Cleveland not doing anything with the empty space surrounding downtown? I feel like downtown ends exactly on East 13th street, goes down to Chester Avenue, and then ends again on East 17th street. On one side of the street there's a 20+ story sky scraper, and on the other side a parking lot, followed by old abandoned factories and warehouses. This goes on toward the freeway, and even up until University Circle. Back in the 1940's, these areas were full of the same type of sky scrapers as on Euclid Avenue in the center of downtown. Now, it looks ugly. I hope somebody would please answer this for me.

Chester to the interstate is filled in by 4-5 story apartments and retail all the way to E.24th. I guess, when was the last time you drove next to Cleveland State along Chester?

https://www.flickr.com/photos/89710079@N04/8221305089/

Originally Posted by reretarff

I have lived in Cleveland for all my life and enjoy going downtown very frequently, but after hearing and reading about new proposals for downtown Cleveland's development building wise, I am not very impressed. Some of the proposed buildings I think are cool like the convention center hotel and the flats east bank project, but it's some proposals for smaller, 4-10 floor buildings to be built downtown that make me upset. It should be illegal to build a building downtown that is less than 10 stories. Downtown is supposed to have sky scrapers, but come on, a 5 floor building? It's inappropriate.

suburbanization, lack of urban growth boundaries/natural bounderies, economics, zoning, ... a lot of reasons. For me personally I would rather have shorter vibrant/walkable Washington DC-esque than a much taller Houston-esque.

Some of the proposed buildings I think are cool like the convention center hotel and the flats east bank project

Why "proposed?" 23-story Flat East Bank tower is completely built (http://flatseast.com/wp-content/uplo...ull-Size-2.jpg) and the 30-story Hilton Convention Center Hotel has been site-prepped and has construction equipment on site ( http://www.clevelandskyscrapers.com/...tion041014.jpg )

[Cleverfield]

Originally Posted by reretarff

There is a large need for buildings downtown right now, mostly for apartments and retail. This isn't Detroit, we don't have abandoned sky scrapers. Now, there is almost never a time where 100% of the apartments, retail and offices in downtown are occupied, but over all, most buildings downtown are currently occupied. I'm pretty sure the size of the building won't really effect the amount of people who occupy it, but usually, most people flock to the bigger, newer buildings. More sky scrapers = better downtown.

The skyscrapers themselves are not what make downtown better, the developers who build them are. If there are no developers willing to build them, it's because they don't see the demand there for them. Economics 101 - in a free market, it's all about supply and demand. Right now, there is a lot of vacant office space downtown. As of the 4th quarter of 2013, the vacancy rate was 18.2%. (http://www.downtowncleveland.com/med...2013_final.pdf) That shows that the demand is just not there for a new office tower. As far as residential goes, yes, there is demand, but there are enough existing buildings at this point that are being converted into apartments that the demand is not there yet for new residential. If the 9 and the other developments are successful, and vacancy rates are still low, we may well see a new residential building downtown, but its size will probably be dictated entirely by what developers believe the market can support, not out of some grandiose belief that a tall building is necessary to make the city look "cooler".

[reretarff]

Originally Posted by costello_musicman

Chester to the interstate is filled in by 4-5 story apartments and retail all the way to E.24th. I guess, when was the last time you drove next to Cleveland State along Chester?

https://www.flickr.com/photos/89710079@N04/8221305089/



suburbanization, lack of urban growth boundaries/natural bounderies, economics, zoning, ... a lot of reasons. For me personally I would rather have shorter vibrant/walkable Washington DC-esque than a much taller Houston-esque.

Some of the proposed buildings I think are cool like the convention center hotel and the flats east bank project

Why "proposed?" 23-story Flat East Bank tower is completely built (http://flatseast.com/wp-content/uplo...ull-Size-2.jpg) and the 30-story Hilton Convention Center Hotel has been site-prepped and has construction equipment on site ( http://www.clevelandskyscrapers.com/...tion041014.jpg )

I have recently been on Chester Avenue and I have seen the college apartments. And though they do look good, they are not at all what a downtown building looks like.

By proposed I mean that it hasn't been completed yet. The second phase of the flats east bank project hasn't been started yet and neither has the convention center hotel.