Opportunity Corridor question (Cleveland, Fairfax, Ohio City: trains, horse, yard)

[Kamms]

Originally Posted by Clevelander17

University Circle has apparently grown and thrived up to this point without a westside connector freeway. Companies and development have already found it beneficial to locate there, so I'm not sure I see this as being a negative message. Organizations and businesses have been drawn to the area for reasons that transcend a supposed lack of a direct route from the west/south.

That said, of all the turnpike revenue lawsuits to file, this one seems late and somewhat misguided, because at least the Opportunity Corridor is infrastructure meant to benefit Northeast Ohio. It's no secret that turnpike funds have unfairly been transferred to fuel projects in other parts of the state for decades.

Sorry to give you the bad news but:

Innovation Square project to break ground, offers glimpse of Opportunity Corridor growth potential | cleveland.com

The good news for you is that University Circle isn't even mentioned.

[costello_musicman]

Originally Posted by Kamms

Sorry to give you the bad news but:

Innovation Square project to break ground, offers glimpse of Opportunity Corridor growth potential | cleveland.com

The good news for you is that University Circle isn't even mentioned.

Fantastic news.

[Kamms]

Originally Posted by costello_musicman

Fantastic news.

It's great news!

[TheProf]

Originally Posted by Kamms

Sorry to give you the bad news but:

Innovation Square project to break ground, offers glimpse of Opportunity Corridor growth potential | cleveland.com

The good news for you is that University Circle isn't even mentioned.

I'm not a fan of the OC, but news like this make me somewhat hopeful that planners will follow through on growth and TOD in the corridor to make the OC more than just a commuter/connector highway for West Siders going to CC.

[TheProf]

Originally Posted by Kamms

In terms of the Opp Corr, it will ease commutes for west side CC employees, but consider as well the ease for employees of other current and future businesses.

I'm not sold however on the point that but for the Red Line, UC wouldn't have its current success. Do you really believe Uptown wouldn't have gone forward without the presence of the Red Line? Even the Centric project. The Red Line is something that can be listed in the sales pitch for the area but until UC and other 'hoods along the route reach a critical mass of population and employment centers, ridership will remain lackluster.

I didn't say UC's success was but for the Red Line; my analysis wasn't so stark. What I did mean is that having excellent public transit -- the HRT Red Line and the (award-winning) BRT Health Line -- both serving the area allows such a dense employment, multi-unit residential area to exist -- and thrive and grow as University Circle is currently doing on steroids. Mass transit connections of this quality allow cities to develop high-concentration employment and residential neighborhoods. University Circle is Cleveland's 2nd downtown and one of the biggest CBD's in the state... If you visit the area during rush hour (and even before, like 3p), you'll find the main roads -- esp Euclid and Mayfield -- are choked with traffic... But you'll also find crowded platforms at the Red Line's Cedar-University and Little Italy/UC stations. Health Line BRT's are also jammed during this time period. That's undeniable.

[Kamms]

Originally Posted by TheProf

I'm not a fan of the OC, but news like this make me somewhat hopeful that planners will follow through on growth and TOD in the corridor to make the OC more than just a commuter/connector highway for West Siders going to CC.

Right, at this point, let's hope this project works (and gets a completion date now).

I never understood the whole ''this is for west siders going to the CC'' line.

Why wouldn't the CC, flaws and all, the area's largest employer, known around the world, want to be as connected to its region as possible? Add in the current and future development and Cleveland can be on its way to a real economic recovery. Ground zero for CLE's eds/meds is E 105/Cedar, as stated by the CSU study.

Last I saw, I-77 isn't on the west side.

[Kamms]

Originally Posted by TheProf

I didn't say UC's success was but for the Red Line; my analysis wasn't so stark. What I did mean is that having excellent public transit -- the HRT Red Line and the (award-winning) BRT Health Line -- both serving the area allows such a dense employment, multi-unit residential area to exist -- and thrive and grow as University Circle is currently doing on steroids. Mass transit connections of this quality allow cities to develop high-concentration employment and residential neighborhoods. University Circle is Cleveland's 2nd downtown and one of the biggest CBD's in the state... If you visit the area during rush hour (and even before, like 3p), you'll find the main roads -- esp Euclid and Mayfield -- are choked with traffic... But you'll also find crowded platforms at the Red Line's Cedar-University and Little Italy/UC stations. Health Line BRT's are also jammed during this time period. That's undeniable.

Trust me, I want people on RTA buses, BRT, and trains as much as possible. Creating employment density is key to doing this.

Since UC is thriving, it's key to develop Fairfax, and south, and north into Hough. That's the Opp Corr intention. I won't mention the Opp Corr for access to UC since that's a really touchy topic with a particular poster on here. Let's focus the Opp Corr on Fairfax/Hough, southward to I-490.

[j_ws]

I feel as if some of the fear/opposition to the OC also stems from the possibility that in shortening commute times, it allows more employees of UC businesses to move further out of the city and therefore basically causes a scaled-down repeat of the effects of all of the urban renewal/highway projects of the midcentury.

I'd love to see it actually induce business development but I don't think suspicion is totally unfounded.

[Kamms]

Originally Posted by j_ws

I feel as if some of the fear/opposition to the OC also stems from the possibility that in shortening commute times, it allows more employees of UC businesses to move further out of the city and therefore basically causes a scaled-down repeat of the effects of all of the urban renewal/highway projects of the midcentury.

I'd love to see it actually induce business development but I don't think suspicion is totally unfounded.

I don't get this point given that the highways of the '50s-'70s provided an escape route from the city for residents and employers. Most CC employees, like pretty much everyone else, live outside the city already, with more and more living outside the county.

Not many people are left in Cleveland that still need to escape.

There's already an interstate system in place.

The CC already has locations around the region, nation, and world.

So the fear is that the Opp Corr will provide the reason for city dwellers to leave the city? Who's left? So a CC employee living in Uptown, One Univeristy Circle, or future area developments, or even downtown, which already have close access to the CC, is going to move out of the city because of the Opp Corr? This isn't 1957 or 1967.

[TheProf]

Originally Posted by j_ws

I feel as if some of the fear/opposition to the OC also stems from the possibility that in shortening commute times, it allows more employees of UC businesses to move further out of the city and therefore basically causes a scaled-down repeat of the effects of all of the urban renewal/highway projects of the midcentury.

I'd love to see it actually induce business development but I don't think suspicion is totally unfounded.

Agreed. "Urban Renewal" + sprawl. As the above article noted, Mayor Jackson withheld his support for the OC until they would promise to scale it down (as in NO FREEWAY!), so it has at-grade crossing with traffic lights and 35 mph. speed limits. He also demanded development, esp TOD. So far so good. RTA says it's on track to lengthen its E. 105-Quincy platform to the widened E. 105 where the OC feeds into it. The promise is that intense development will rise near the rapid station (as well as near the 2 E. 79th Street stations).