Cleveland mayoral race (Jackson, Prospect, Republic: 2015, crime rates, home)

[Horsehead]

For those that doubt my assessment of Issue 24 and Bibb, have a look at crime in Minneapolis or Portland. Their versions of issue 24 are helping criminals function more effectively, and the stats support that fact.

Wake up, woke fools.

[WRnative]

Originally Posted by Horsehead

For those that doubt my assessment of Issue 24 and Bibb, have a look at crime in Minneapolis or Portland. Their versions of issue 24 are helping criminals function more effectively, and the stats support that fact.

Wake up, woke fools.

You may or may not have a good point, but it is certain that you haven't explained let alone documented your point. Are you one of those dangerous idiots who believes that a political insult alone is sufficient to validate your point of view?

As obviously you are a "sleeper," (given your use of "woke fools") and therefore incapable of in-depth thought in my experience, I won't hold my breath awaiting an intelligent, documented explanation of your claims.

I would agree that Issue 24 is an abomination, but a political act of last resort resulting from incompetent administration of Cleveland's police force.

https://www.cleveland.com/opinion/20...editorial.html

Yet I believe that much of Cleveland's crime problem results from insane gun laws foisted on Ohio's urban centers by largely rural, gerrymandered Republican legislators and recent Republican governors, and economic distress as a result of horrible, long-term federal taxation policies and the COVID epidemic, a disaster directly resulting from the anti-science, Trumpian policy responses and ridiculous cultural polarization.

Horsehead, here's how you document an argument, in the event you ever wake up even a little bit and actually attempt to engage in an informed discussion.

https://ohiocapitaljournal.com/2021/...un-regulation/

See post 276 and posts 282-289 in this thread.

https://www.city-data.com/forum/colu...idwest-28.html

See posts 494, 500, and 507 in this thread.

https://www.city-data.com/forum/flor...thread-50.html

What is needed above all else is a mayor who campaigns against state and federal laws and policies that cripple Cleveland. Of course, this requires a mayor who well understands the big picture, and I don't know of a single Ohio politician who possesses that quality. E.g., where is the Ohio politician who explains how the robust policy responses in other nations have protected their people from the health and economic carnage of the COVID epidemic experienced in Ohio and, to a lesser, extent, in other U.S. states and the nation as a whole. What U.S. politician has focused on the health crisis represented by long COVID sequelae?

Cleveland needs a mayor, who, with other Ohio urban leaders, campaigns for the restoration of "home rule" in Ohio. It has been effectively demolished in Ohio despite its constitutional provision by Republican legislators enabled by Republican political Ohio Supreme Court justices.

https://www.lsc.ohio.gov/documents/r...ome%20Rule.pdf

[bjimmy24]

I am definitely concerned about Issue 24 and will absolutely vote "No" on it.

I find myself more in line with Kelley's practical knowledge of city government than Bibb's idealistic approach. I will be voting for Kelley whenever I get around to it.

[andrew61]

Originally Posted by Horsehead

Dennis loves Cleveland. The best situation would be for the idealistic child Justin Bibb to get a job in a Dennis Kucinich administration and learn how to run things, and let Kelly stay running Council. I would write in Dennis if it didn't ensure that Bibb would win, a la Bill Clinton against Perot and Bush Sr.

Issue 24 - Cleveland's "defund the police" BS - if passed, will kill Cleveland. It will be open season on University Circle/main campus hospital commuters. Commuting to a city center for one's job creates a "taxation without representation" dynamic that is becoming grossly inequitable for suburbanites.

Can you provide any backup for your claim that Issue 24 seeks to "defund" the police? All I see is that it would provide for more civilian oversight of police actions, and thereby improve police accountability and department transparency.

That said, I'm currently leaning against Issue 24 and toward voting for Kelley.

[WRnative]

This forum likely will cover Issue 24 very thoroughly. In addition to streaming, it likely will be broadcast on WVIZ (10 a.m. Sunday).

https://www.cityclub.org/forums/2021...ining-issue-24

The commission membership requirement may be one of the most consequential, opaque and difficult to enforce requirements of Issue 24:

<<The initiative would also add section 115-5 to the Cleveland charter, which would provide for the creation of a Community Police Commission. The Commission would consist of 13 members appointed by the Mayor and confirmed by the City Council, with one member being nominated by the Commissioners as director, pending approval from the Mayor.[3]

The initiative would specify that the Commission should be demographically representative of the city of Cleveland by metrics of race, class, sexual orientation, gender identity, etc. Further, the initiative would require that at least one Commissioner be knowledgeable about each of the following subjects:[3]

struggles faced by the homeless, limited-English speakers, and those with mental health or substance abuse disorders;
people who have been affected by police violence;
wrongful conviction and the exoneration of the incarcerated;
people who have been affected by gun violence;
prosecution of police misconduct and defense of those affected.>>

https://ballotpedia.org/Cleveland,_O...(November_2021)

It would make more sense for City Council and the Mayor to select commission members. Say Council was given the power to select 9 commission members. Each Councilperson could be given 9 votes to use for one commissioner, or to divide among nominees as desired. This should assure the appointment of commissioners representative of the community. The Mayor would appoint members representative of the police force, including unions.

How much will commissioners be paid? Why is the commission budget one percent of the police department budget?

[QCongress83216]

I'm actually for Issue 24, it would be beneficial to Cleveland to have a committee to hold bad and corrupt cops accountable because, whether you or the cops realize it or not, the bad cops put the good cops at risk. Also, it is not to "defund the police" some people on this board are using that term too loosely. I went their website, and it doesn't say one thing about defending the police or cutting their budget. I'm going to vote for Bibb because he's more in line with the views I have on how Cleveland can turn around. We've been trying it with a lot of these career politicians for decades and that's what Kelley comes off like to me. Time for Cleveland gets some new blood in City Hall.

[mbowes80]

I will likely vote for Justin Bibb and against Issue 24. I'll be surprised if plenty of others don't do the same.

[bjimmy24]

Originally Posted by mbowes80

I will likely vote for Justin Bibb and against Issue 24. I'll be surprised if plenty of others don't do the same.

Seems kinda… mixed up. Bibb loves issue 24.

[mbowes80]

Originally Posted by bjimmy24

Seems kinda… mixed up. Bibb loves issue 24.

I disagree for a couple of reasons ...

First, it's rational (and, I would argue, common) voter behavior to think "X is the best candidate in this race, but I disagree with his position on specific issue Y."

Second, I'm not convinced that he "loves" it ... I think it makes strategic sense for his campaign and the lane he's running in to publicly support it, but I think he also recognizes that it's far from perfect (and I heard him admit as much in a recent interview on the After Jackson podcast.)

[bjimmy24]

Originally Posted by mbowes80

I disagree for a couple of reasons ...

First, it's rational (and, I would argue, common) voter behavior to think "X is the best candidate in this race, but I disagree with his position on specific issue Y."

Second, I'm not convinced that he "loves" it ... I think it makes strategic sense for his campaign and the lane he's running in to publicly support it, but I think he also recognizes that it's far from perfect (and I heard him admit as much in a recent interview on the After Jackson podcast.)

Issue 24 is very important. It’s black and white. Bibb said in the debate he fully supports it. It’s pretty clear cut IMO