Please register to participate in our discussions with 2 million other members - it's free and quick! Some forums can only be seen by registered members. After you create your account, you'll be able to customize options and access all our 15,000 new posts/day with fewer ads.
What I said was:
I have no idea of the 'track' but publishing... yes.
As to the one leaving at noon... No, sorry, that's pretty much an all year thing! (Not just her)
I don't go around asking people if they are tenure track, but everything I outlined includes people who publish (And don't spend large % of their days researching)
I SAID they made less than quoted, but lets say $40K for a job where you work for half a day and maybe teach 3 classes max!
Not too bad!
"not tenured yet" implies they are in tenure track positions...meaning they are attempting to obtain tenure. So I will ask my question again...where do you go to school/what area are you in where people with only a masters are in tenure TRACK positions?
and yeah I am sure you know plenty of people that are publishing and not doing much research. Everyone I know in academia that isn't a full professor works 50-60 hour weeks.
"not tenured yet" implies they are in tenure track positions...meaning they are attempting to obtain tenure. So I will ask my question again...where do you go to school/what area are you in where people with only a masters are in tenure TRACK positions?
and yeah I am sure you know plenty of people that are publishing and not doing much research. Everyone I know in academia that isn't a full professor works 50-60 hour weeks.
I'll think about it after you post your address!
Just go LOOK around a university, Are there exceptions? Sure. There are workaholics everywhere, and some fields are labor intensive.
But add together the 'office hours' with the couple classes they teach... and then just be 'around' and see how little otherwise (IF they don't have GA's do their teaching for them, and are actually in their offices during office hours) they work!
This being my 5th university, From Old Miss, to local Community Colleges...
I'd say I have had a decent view of the spectrum.
Just go LOOK around a university, Are there exceptions? Sure. There are workaholics everywhere, and some fields are labor intensive.
But add together the 'office hours' with the couple classes they teach... and then just be 'around' and see how little otherwise (IF they don't have GA's do their teaching for them, and are actually in their offices during office hours) they work!
This being my 5th university, From Old Miss, to local Community Colleges...
I'd say I have had a decent view of the spectrum.
Ole Miss doesn't have people with masters degrees on tenure track. I think they are at the bottom end of tier 1 also. It's clear now your original comments were based on community colleges which have nothing to do with the OP data.
It really appears you don't know how things work at a top research institution.
Don't forget to factor in that at a state university a professor can retire with a great pension after 30 years, and then go teach for another 15 years somewhere else. Sweet.
Don't forget to factor in that at a state university a professor can retire with a great pension after 30 years, and then go teach for another 15 years somewhere else. Sweet.
Start their own business or do consulting. It's one of the most flexible careers.
Ole Miss doesn't have people with masters degrees on tenure track. I think they are at the bottom end of tier 1 also. It's clear now your original comments were based on community colleges which have nothing to do with the OP data.
It really appears you don't know how things work at a top research institution.
I was not speaking about Old Miss in my specification . Just in the last post that that was one of the schools I've been to, seen similar (I could NEVER catch my adviser there...) and describing the range.
Where I am attending now (Nontraditional as I believed I mentioned) it is NOT a Community College, and is a fairly high ranked state school.
I attended the Community Colleges while I was moving around on Active Duty as available, although I also attended the University of Southern Alabama.
My Original comments were NOT based on community colleges. Sorry you ASSumed... You know what happens when that occurs!
Quite honestly I do not care about the 'Tenure track' as I stated, many of them are not as well paid as earlier others claimed.
That said, with some exceptions... I have not noticed many of them working very hard.
And Yes, I DO believe $40K+ for a job your done with by lunch (Except for the ones coming in at 10 and leaving at 2 or similar (Seen that as well) IS overpaying. for the (Sometimes much) less than 100 students many of them have (Again, not all)
PARTICULARELY when you consider what POOR teachers a majority of them are!
Again, you're not reading what I wrote. This isn't about whether they deserve the money it's a question of whether they have empathy with their students taking on outrageous debt. Those at the top of the food chain may not want to risk it by telling these kids the cold hard facts about the crazy debt many are taking on.
I've restated this a few times and I now see people are being willfully blind because they don't want to have THAT conversation.
I'd say that's irrelevant. The job of college professors is not to have "empathy" with their students' financial circumstances; it's to effectively teach and perform research. The large majority of them do not have any real say in tuition-related decisions anyway.
If you want to have a serious discussion about higher education costs, then focus on the administrators and methods that could produce greater efficiency within higher education management/bureaucracy. Also to be addressed would be funding dependency issues such as state schools and state budgets (which are obviously in the toilet right now). Also, we might want to consider a broader structural overhaul to college education - such as the fact that not everyone with a hole in their rear should be going to one. We should have a serious system of lower-level trade schooling available to foster employability, and only a minority percentage of the best students should even be attending traditional full university/college programs.
Any of these things yield a more productive debate than a misguided implication that professors' salaries should be slashed across the board. While I'm sure there are some egregious circumstances, I'd say that the problem is more complex than that, and most professors are not raking in obscene pay.
Just go LOOK around a university, Are there exceptions? Sure. There are workaholics everywhere, and some fields are labor intensive.
But add together the 'office hours' with the couple classes they teach... and then just be 'around' and see how little otherwise (IF they don't have GA's do their teaching for them, and are actually in their offices during office hours) they work!
This being my 5th university, From Old Miss, to local Community Colleges...
I'd say I have had a decent view of the spectrum.
Yeah because saying your major is the same as me giving you my address.....
Old Miss?? perhaps you mean Ole Miss.
It seems like you know what you are talking about. I like how your anecdotal evidence is relevant and seems to be THE RULE, but others anecdotal evidence is the exception to the rule. IE sure there are a few workaholics.
5 universities...hopefully you have multiple advanced degrees by this point. I've been to 2 state universities and never seen professors that only show up for their lectures..so I guess we are just living in alternate universes.
I was not speaking about Old Miss in my specification . Just in the last post that that was one of the schools I've been to, seen similar (I could NEVER catch my adviser there...) and describing the range.
Where I am attending now (Nontraditional as I believed I mentioned) it is NOT a Community College, and is a fairly high ranked state school.
I attended the Community Colleges while I was moving around on Active Duty as available, although I also attended the University of Southern Alabama.
My Original comments were NOT based on community colleges. Sorry you ASSumed... You know what happens when that occurs!
Quite honestly I do not care about the 'Tenure track' as I stated, many of them are not as well paid as earlier others claimed.
That said, with some exceptions... I have not noticed many of them working very hard.
And Yes, I DO believe $40K+ for a job your done with by lunch (Except for the ones coming in at 10 and leaving at 2 or similar (Seen that as well) IS overpaying. for the (Sometimes much) less than 100 students many of them have (Again, not all)
PARTICULARELY when you consider what POOR teachers a majority of them are!
One has to assume because you refuse to answer the questions people have asked. Your first post was in response to someone talking about FULL TIME TENURE TRACK FACULTY. Now that persons post was exactly on point with the OP. You responded talking about professors who were on a tenure track after getting their masters.
So with that you went way off track with your experience because no tier 1 university is hiring people with a masters and putting them on a tenure track.
Now that you mentioned active duty one would assume that combined with you thinking professors on tenure track with a masters is normal, it seems like your original post was probably in reference to your experience at a for profit college.
Either way you look at it your first post in response to the topic had nothing to do with the main topic of the thread.
Please register to post and access all features of our very popular forum. It is free and quick. Over $68,000 in prizes has already been given out to active posters on our forum. Additional giveaways are planned.
Detailed information about all U.S. cities, counties, and zip codes on our site: City-data.com.
Please register to participate in our discussions with 2 million other members - it's free and quick! Some forums can only be seen by registered members. After you create your account, you'll be able to customize options and access all our 15,000 new posts/day with fewer ads.
