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Smallest college in the country? Marlboro? Wild guess. If that's it, he'd like it.
He needs to make peace with the fact that schools that are like them are, for the most part, not in PA. Many seem to be in New England or The Pacific Northwest.
Albany is a great SUNY school. No it's a great school. However my son could not cope with the SUNY DEC requirements. Not his thing.
Also now looking at Evergreen State in Washington. He's non traditional.
Close. Sterling College. A lot smaller than Marlboro. Big contrast from University of Montana, where he started. He's also nontraditional.
Sheena12 - All of your posts seem to be about what you want in a college for your son. Where is your son in all this? It has been my experience (as a parent who's sent 2 kids to college and witnessed their friends going as well) that too much parental involvement in college selection is not always a good thing. You seem to be set on certain things for your son and I think all parents can understand the urge to channel our kids toward what we think they need. However, I have seen parents do so with poor results. Kids who don't feel engaged in the process are sometimes not as invested in making the school work for them once they get there.
Sure, you should be discussing with your son what your family parameters are (cost, distance, family values etc), but he should be engaged in doing the research. There are great references online as well as books you can get to help him focus on the attributes of a college that are important to him. Perhaps I'm in the minority, but I insisted my kids took the lead on researching colleges and scheduling visits to the ones in which they were interested. I'm not saying DH and I didn't discuss each choice with them, but the discussion was basically asking them what appealed to them about each school, what programs/activities were offered on each campus and what (if any) concerns they would have about attending. We strived to be non-judgmental about any of their choices and let them discover for themselves what school was the best fit for them.
IMO, if a kid is not interested or ready to take the lead when making a college decision, then perhaps they are not ready to attend college. I'm not saying this is the case with your son, I'm just saying I've seen parents do all the research with little to no interest on the part of their kid and in most cases said kid was back home after a semester.
The preppy thing is more of a vibe then an official policy, isn't it? But even at schools that have a preppy reputation, you will find students that will dress uniquely. My kids are more bargain conscious then they are label conscious. The majority of my son's t-shirts are from woot.com because they make us laugh. That said, my second son went to Roanoke college which apparently has a preppy reputation. He and his friends furnished their house with things from dumpster diving, Goodwill and yard sales.
What I mean about going about it backwards is that instead of asking what colleges have the policies that YOU think are important, instead find more colleges with the programs that are important to your son and then let him decide about the rest. At this point in senior year, I encouraged my kids to simply apply to several colleges, visit when we could and then mull things over while waiting for acceptances and aid offers. Priorities and even choice of majors often change between the time of application and acceptance.
BTW, I hope you guys like Hartwick and Alfred. Make sure that you check out the alternative living cabins at Hartwick at Pine Lake. I don't think freshman can live there, and in fact, I think the freshman dorms are kind of icky, but we LOVED the cabins on the lake. They were tapping maple syrup there when we visited this past Spring.
I agree about non-traditional schools being not in Pennsylvania, but I would argue about them being mostly in New England or the PNW. Since you specifically asked for colleges in NY,PA, NJ, that's the recommendations I've given, but there are many crunchy, alternative type colleges in our half of the country.
The thing about someone sitting at a desk to check people in and make sure who is in the dorm seems to me to be at either urban campuses and/or large campuses. At small dorms everyone knows everyone and a missing person or a stranger would stick out. I've been trying to think of where I've seen them (the dorms do blur together after a while) and where I think I remember them are at Millersville, Bloomsburg and Drexel.
Ok, I looked at the King's College security information and to be honest, you are reading into this policy WAY too much. As for overnight guests of the opposite sex, yes, you are going to find that at any religious school this will not be an option, which is a good thing, not a bad thing.
I would also suggest that you NOT call the residential life office but have HIM call if he is concerned. I would also take what another student says with a grain of salt since they may just have a personality conflict with that RA or whatever.
My daughters both attended religious (Lutheran) colleges in the midwest, one from 2002-06, and the other from 2005-07 (then transferred to the U of CO). Both colleges had co-ed floors, and fairly lenient visiting policies. In fact, they were more lenient than the U of CO was for my nephew in 2000, when my brother couldn't go up to his room to drop something off when the kid wasn't there. His dorm did have a desk and an attendant.
I recall a desk at one college (Valparaiso), but I think that was just after hours. As far as over-zealous RAs, I'd look into the RA policies. One of my DDs used to complain about excessive noise, and said that the RA on her floor seemed to ignore it.
I want a college that will teach my son - not police or harass him. I always thought of college as "the Best Time of My Life" - not, as some do, high school.
High school was full of rules that I found arbitrary and demeaning.
I knew that I just had to get through high school, do well and then I could choose a place that was in harmony with my learning style, learning preference and philosophy.
I want my children to have this experience as well.
I don't want them to have to put up with room searches, a hostile police state atmosphere, or being treated as a child.
Before I forget, your son sounds similar to the way I was as a teenager. With that in mind, I have two things to point out:
1) Your criticisms seem to be against college dorms and their "ridiculous" policies. Instead of searching for a college that has a more "accommodating" dorm life/structure/rules, why not skip dorms all together? Find a college that gives students the option to live off campus as a freshman. 2) Another thing to consider is community college, then transfer. Both of these will bypass the "police state" that you seem sure exists.
Besides, your son will probably enjoy living off campus, anyways. Not to mention that in practically every case, even when bills and food are factored in, it will be cheaper than dorm-living.
I should also point out that if you son does not like "rules that he disagrees with" then he probably will not dig college in general. I mean, if dorm life is to be too restrictive, then he surely will have problems with half of his "unreasonable" professors. Another reason why doing two years at a community college might be a better option for him.
I graduated from high school in '92 and have more college experience than I care to admit (back in school now for a second undergrad degree after many years of "testing the waters"). I am far too familiar with college from the perception of being a CC student, to attending a public and private universities. I have friends that went to college right out of high school, and some that never stepped foot onto a college campus until they were in their 30s. Also, I have younger relatives who are entering college now. So, college is what I know best, hence why I hang out in this forum.
Now that my credentials are out of the way, I must say that you sound like the paranoid adult. Dorm policies are in place for two reasons: to provide a safe atmosphere for students to live in, and to get the university off the hook when students do stupid sh*t. Yes, guests may have to sign in and out, visiting hours may be limited, alcohol and drugs may be banned (and why shouldn't they? Alcohol is illegal for anyone under 21 and drugs are illegal for everyone). The visiting hours, for the most part, are to help ensure that students have some time available for studying/sleeping/etc. without distraction, not to "police" students.
The last four-year I attended had a strict no-alcohol policy....even at their hockey games Any student caught with booze, let alone drunk (even if they lived off campus...yeah, that one is a little over-the-top in my book) is required to attend an alcohol awareness program and/or get kicked out. Yeah, that is strict, but you know what? All students are aware of this before they sign up.
Anyways, it never stopped students from bringing in booze and "other" items, though. In fact, and this is based on my own experience as well, such "rules" teach the students one thing: how to become crafty and sneaky.
Like I said, avoid dorm living, and avoid the situation all together.
Quote:
Originally Posted by sheena12
On college web sites I see links for parents, and on some I have seen "Parents Associations" - PTAs at college? ???
This is all new to me. My parents were not even entitled to a copy of my transcript! I always voluntarily showed it to them; after all there was nothing to hide, but we were thought of as "men" and "women" by the school administration, not children whose behavior needed to be monitored.
Very recently, I sat on the Student Welfare and Retention Committee at school. The big thing we worked on was FERPA...and more to the point, how to communicate such policy to parents. Parent Associations and the like are one way in which universities mend parents desire/demand they be involved in their students lives with keeping them abreast with what and what they can do/know. No college, because of FERPA, can show transcripts to parents unless the student specifically gives the college permission. Transcripts, or other documents, that are mailed to the students permanent address (usually their parents address) are subject to what-ever treatment the individual parent deems necessary. Although, opening mail that is not addressed to you, even if you pay their tuition, is a crime...and students can change their permanent address to what-ever address they want at point in time (as long as it is not a dorm address).
Believe me, colleges and universities very much think of your sons and daughters as adults.
Quote:
Originally Posted by sheena12
I can't post links - there are way too many!
But, you can post a few......
Quote:
Originally Posted by sheena12
Forgot "student profiling in terms of appearance" - Was told that one college tended to be mistrustful of students who dressed any way but "preppy" - essentially thought that they were more or less "up to no good"
Never heard of a "college" doing such a thing, and this comes from living in Boston and being exposed to schools like Harvard, Tufts, BC, Bentley, and a few other rich and preppy schools. Perhaps such talk comes from students, but even at these rich schools, you will find students who dress in all sorts of manner.
I agree with toobusytoday.....it seems that many colleges in New England offer more types of dorms and student housing than other parts of the country. Around here, even with smaller schools (1000 students or less) it is common to find housing for different lifestyles. Such as: smoking/non-smoking (cigarette and the other kind), alcohol/non-alcohol, drug-free, all-women, all-male, lesbian/gay, coed, all nerds, all jocks, all science majors, etc. etc. New England has a ton of smaller colleges/universities, and it seems to me that schools around here offer these various living situations in response to a smaller, or a lack thereof, greek scene.
Two colleges that come to mind, both in Maine:
University of Maine at Machias | Welcome to the University of Maine at Machias
University of Maine @ Machias. Around 1000 students...many of which smoke dope, cigs, and drink....you would too if you were surrounded by trees for 100s of miles. It is, though, right on the ocean. And Maine has some of the best coast line in the country. However, really only a good school if you are into marine bio or GIS, as those are its two major programs.
Unity College
Unity College. Uh...hippy dippy. Almost went here, twice. Everyone gets the same degree, Human Ecology....or something like that. But, you get to design your own major.
Sheena12 - All of your posts seem to be about what you want in a college for your son. Where is your son in all this? It has been my experience (as a parent who's sent 2 kids to college and witnessed their friends going as well) that too much parental involvement in college selection is not always a good thing. You seem to be set on certain things for your son and I think all parents can understand the urge to channel our kids toward what we think they need. However, I have seen parents do so with poor results. Kids who don't feel engaged in the process are sometimes not as invested in making the school work for them once they get there.
Sure, you should be discussing with your son what your family parameters are (cost, distance, family values etc), but he should be engaged in doing the research. There are great references online as well as books you can get to help him focus on the attributes of a college that are important to him. Perhaps I'm in the minority, but I insisted my kids took the lead on researching colleges and scheduling visits to the ones in which they were interested. I'm not saying DH and I didn't discuss each choice with them, but the discussion was basically asking them what appealed to them about each school, what programs/activities were offered on each campus and what (if any) concerns they would have about attending. We strived to be non-judgmental about any of their choices and let them discover for themselves what school was the best fit for them.
IMO, if a kid is not interested or ready to take the lead when making a college decision, then perhaps they are not ready to attend college. I'm not saying this is the case with your son, I'm just saying I've seen parents do all the research with little to no interest on the part of their kid and in most cases said kid was back home after a semester.
Very well said. I was thinking the same thing. Parents need to understand that there comes a point when their 'kids' should not longer be treated as children. Unfortunately, some parents seem to have difficulty in giving up control.
Both my kids did their own research and both chose their own university (they happened to both go to the same one). I did not do a single campus visit with either of them because it was not my life or my choice and I did not want to influence them. My daughter never lived on campus. From age 18 she lived in an apartment with two other girls. A parent may want their kid to experience dorm life, but what does the young adult want?
Both got good degrees and are now happily and gainfully employed.
I knew a lot of people who went to Kings and we would party up there on occasion ... none of them were in student housing, but it seemed to be an anything goes kind of environment
I went to school in Philly where safety was obviously very important. I never had any issues in the dorms. The desk was always manned, visitors had to sign in (but we never had issues with gender, etc), my freshman year RA was fired for throwing us a party and then we went without an RA for months. The other RAs were fine - basically students trying to keep costs down.
Not much profiling so to speak ... you did get to know the desk staff though. My roomate had a beard for the 1st six months. He shaved it off when we went up to PSU for a weekend event. When we came back in the lady at the desk gave him a really hard time. Basically "i've never seen you, you don't live here". We thought she was joking at first, but it was a bit of a hassle .... laughed about it later.
Depending on the dorm you would have co-ed floors, separation by floor, etc.
I was looking at a school in TX and actually decided against it because of how strict the rules were ... mandatory church service, gender specific dorms, no admittance into the dorm of another gender after 9pm (so basically have to be inconvenienced and go to a safe neutral area if there is a project to work on, studying or if you just want to play cards, watch TV, etc ........ because let's be honest, if you are into the banging it's not like your day is so jam packed you can't get it done during the day......)
It was so restrictive it turned me off from a university I really kind of liked
There are a lot of smaller colleges throughout PA & NY ... many of them are private though and can be a bit expensive.
I grew up near Hobart & William Smith colleges (they started as gender specific institutions and have blended) as well as Keuka College ....... Keuka was smaller and had a really cool vibe to it - there were the basic rules but it didn't seem like much was enforced ...... i knew a guy who was disciplined for bringing a case of beer into the dorms as a freshman - however, when i would visit there was never any shortage of beer in the dorms and a lot of parties actually in the dorms ... so I think it was just a matter of being too blatant about things
Even today many dorms are sex-segregated and have limited opposite-sex visiting hours. It's not uncommon for a larger university to have a variety of living arrangements to suit the preferences of the students (or perhaps more accurately, the parents). Some universities now even have dorms where men and women can room together. I can tell you this, if I ever send kids to college, there's no way they're living in that dorm unless they're paying their own freight. New-found freedoms, raging hormones and free-flowing alcohol are a volatile enough mix without providing easy access to each other 24/7.
Last edited by Drover; 10-06-2011 at 11:42 AM..
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Any student caught with booze, let alone drunk (even if they lived off campus...yeah, that one is a little over-the-top in my book) is required to attend an alcohol awareness program and/or get kicked out. Yeah, that is strict, but you know what? All students are aware of this before they sign up. 
???
but we were thought of as "men" and "women" by the school administration, not children whose behavior needed to be monitored.
