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I will be graduating at the end of the year with a BA in Geography, and I finally settled on wanting to get a job involving GIS once I graduate. Problem is I have been looking at the few GIS job ads there is, and all of them are asking for much more skills/experience than I have. I have been trying to find an internship, and have contacted several public agencies with no response. If I cannot even get an internship, it shows me the hopes of getting a job in the field is pretty hopeless without more experience.
With this, I have been looking for any entry level job out there in any field just to see my options. Most of the entry level jobs I have seen involve sales. I have no interest in sales or customer service. I have been working part time at a library for nearly seven years doing customer service/data entry, and I have no interest in a future full time job involving customer service.
This leaves me at a crossroads, for with the degree I am getting, and the job experience I have it just looks really bleak for me to be able get into any job that is not customer service or sales related. I did not really want to continue on and get a masters, but my bleak outlook in finding a decent job after graduation has me rethinking my plan.
I am thinking about now continuing on at my school in their Geography MA program. There is several reasons including right now I am doing field work for a professor on a research project that has the possibility of collaborating with him on a paper about it. I plan on doing the program in getting more experience with GIS in hopes I will be able to get a job in the field once I graduate. Even if I cannot get a job in the field, I am hoping having a MA will increase my chances in getting a government job or in some other field that does not involved my dreaded customer service or sales. Also, it will delay my entry into the job market which would hopefully be improved some more by the time I am done.
I am hesitant though, because I am kind of tired with school, and was hoping to be able to find a job that allowed me to move out of my parents house, and get on with my life once I got my BA (I am 26, and am ready to have and want my full independence from my family). I am also hesitant because I feel that even if I got the MA in Geography, I could possibly still be in the same boat of not being able to find a job like with a BA. I am willing to spend the next two years of my life and money doing this, if the end result meant I was able to meet my goals of finding a job that allowed me to live on my own, and did not involve customer service or sales. If the MA is not going to help me reach those goals though, then I feel that I am better off just graduating with my BA, getting on with life, and hopefully finding a job even if takes a year or more.
Any advice or insight?
Last edited by Flamedown; 07-14-2012 at 01:06 PM..
I will be graduating at the end of the year with a BA in Geography, and I finally settled on wanting to get a job involving GIS once I graduate. Problem is I have been looking at the few GIS job ads there is, and all of them are asking for much more skills/experience than I have. I have been trying to find an internship, and have contacted several public agencies with no response. If I cannot even get an internship, it shows me the hopes of getting a job in the field is pretty hopeless without more experience.
With this, I have been looking for any entry level job out there in any field just to see my options. Most of the entry level jobs I have seen involve sales. I have no interest in sales or customer service. I have been working part time at a library for nearly seven years doing customer service/data entry, and I have no interest in a future full time job involving customer service.
This leaves me at a crossroads, for with the degree I am getting, and the job experience I have it just looks really bleak for me to be able get into any job that is not customer service or sales related. I did not really want to continue on and get a masters, but my bleak outlook in finding a decent job after graduation has me rethinking my plan.
I am thinking about now continuing on at my school in their Geography MA program. There is several reasons including right now I am doing field work for a professor on a research project that has the possibility of collaborating with him on a paper about it. I plan on doing the program in getting more experience with GIS in hopes I will be able to get a job in the field once I graduate. Even if I cannot get a job in the field, I am hoping having a MA will increase my chances in getting a government job or in some other field that does not involved my dreaded customer service or sales. Also, it will delay my entry into the job market which would hopefully be improved some more by the time I am done.
I am hesitant though, because I am kind of tired with school, and was hoping to be able to find a job that allowed me to move out of my parents house, and get on with my life once I got my BA (I am 26, and am ready to have and want my full independence from my family). I am also hesitant because I feel that even if I got the MA in Geography, I could possibly still be in the same boat of not being able to find a job like with a BA. I am willing to spend the next two years of my life and money doing this, if the end result meant I was able to meet my goals of finding a job that allowed me to live on my own, and did not involve customer service or sales. If the MA is not going to help me reach those goals though, then I feel that I am better off just graduating with my BA, getting on with life, and hopefully finding a job even if takes a year or more.
Any advice or insight?
How much experience do you currently have with GIS?
There are many agencies/organization that utilize GIS (banks, insurance companies, real estate, media outlets, conservation groups, utility companies, hell, even retail). So perhaps if you widen your scope beyond your major you might have some luck.
Grad school is all about research, even at the Masters level. So you should only go to grad school if that is what you want to do. There are many GIS-cert programs that are offered by graduate/professional schools, so perhaps that would be a better option.
Either you, or I, am confused by your "goals". I mean, being able to live on your own and not do retail/service is your goal?
Continuing to work with the Prof is a good idea, and in the end might prove to be one of the better decisions that you make right now no matter what you end up doing.
If you want a Government job, then yes, getting a Masters will be required. But, experience is still the key. If you think that the job market will "improve" in two years, you are nuts. Yes, the economy might pick up, but keep this in mind: two years from now there will be two more years worth of new college (and grad school) graduates who will be competing against you for these same jobs. Not to mention all the people who have the degrees and years of experience now who also want these same jobs.
A Masters will definitely help, but without experience you are not going to get a Government job. However, aiding your Prof with his research and publishing will be a huge career booster for you. It won't put you at the top of the pile, but it will trump an internship for one, and depending on the length of your time with the project, may be able to count as "work experience". At least it shows you were not playing Skyrim all day long or what-ever the young bucks are into these days.
Also, do you know how to present yourself in a professional manner? I mean really know? I ask because I have come across an annoying amount of 20-somethings who use LOL and other forms of "text speak" in their emails when they should be writing emails at a professional level. I just see too many young adults who think they are being professional when in fact they are not. Google how to write a proper, professional, email or run what ever you plan on sending by your Prof or parents before you send it.
How you present yourself is everything and emails have become an acceptable form of professional communication.
How much experience do you currently have with GIS?
There are many agencies/organization that utilize GIS (banks, insurance companies, real estate, media outlets, conservation groups, utility companies, hell, even retail). So perhaps if you widen your scope beyond your major you might have some luck.
Grad school is all about research, even at the Masters level. So you should only go to grad school if that is what you want to do. There are many GIS-cert programs that are offered by graduate/professional schools, so perhaps that would be a better option.
Either you, or I, am confused by your "goals". I mean, being able to live on your own and not do retail/service is your goal?
Continuing to work with the Prof is a good idea, and in the end might prove to be one of the better decisions that you make right now no matter what you end up doing.
If you want a Government job, then yes, getting a Masters will be required. But, experience is still the key. If you think that the job market will "improve" in two years, you are nuts. Yes, the economy might pick up, but keep this in mind: two years from now there will be two more years worth of new college (and grad school) graduates who will be competing against you for these same jobs. Not to mention all the people who have the degrees and years of experience now who also want these same jobs.
A Masters will definitely help, but without experience you are not going to get a Government job. However, aiding your Prof with his research and publishing will be a huge career booster for you. It won't put you at the top of the pile, but it will trump an internship for one, and depending on the length of your time with the project, may be able to count as "work experience". At least it shows you were not playing Skyrim all day long or what-ever the young bucks are into these days.
Also, do you know how to present yourself in a professional manner? I mean really know? I ask because I have come across an annoying amount of 20-somethings who use LOL and other forms of "text speak" in their emails when they should be writing emails at a professional level. I just see too many young adults who think they are being professional when in fact they are not. Google how to write a proper, professional, email or run what ever you plan on sending by your Prof or parents before you send it.
How you present yourself is everything and emails have become an acceptable form of professional communication.
Good luck.
To be honest I could be best describe my career goals as finding a job that I enjoy, and that pays me well enough that I could stick in until I retire(I am not looking to be rich). I view work as a end to a means in establishing a comfortable life. I do want a job that I enjoy, but I do not have the ambition to keep on moving up the job chain or from job to job if I find the job that I enjoy and allows me to live a comfortable life. I do have the ambition to always learn more about the world though. I like to learn, I am just somewhat tired of being forced to learn by other's terms(school) instead of my own terms. I guess my career
I have taken two GIS classes along with some GIS work I did on my own for other geography classes. I am taking another GIS class in the fall, along with an intro remote sensing class. I do enjoy working with GIS, and I could see myself doing it as a job as long as I am challenged intellectually, for I always like to learn more.
Yeah, I have heard how a variety of organizations use GIS, unfortunately there just does not to seem to be too many GIS job listings in general compared to many professions. I am going to keep on looking of course, but it is somewhat discouraging my future outlook.
I find the applied Geography side of it more interesting, but it appears the programming side of GIS is more in demand these days. I am willing to learn it, but I like GIS more for the Geography side and solving geographic problems.
I have thought about doing a certificate program in GIS, but looking at some of them it seems like they cover the basics along with some advanced things, so it seems like that is somewhat repetitive which makes me hesitant.
Yeah, I was recommended by one of my fellow students to work with the professor, and I jumped at the opportunity. I am doing field work doing measurements and mapping of all of our schools trees, which also involves using a mobile GIS, and adding it to my geography department's GIS server. I am also working on the project with one of the people running my departments GIS research center, so I am hoping to parlay it in learning some of his knowledge and maybe see if I can get myself into other opportunities with it. Not to mention I am working with the professor on his project(several school entities have interest in his project because the field work is helping build the school's GIS schoolwide application, while also getting him his data). I also would be able to possibly turn some of the field work into my own thesis which would definitely give me a jump start on working on it.
I do like research to an extent, for I enjoy learning. I just get tired of doing the school work sometimes because I am quite the procrastinator(I get really good grades, but I know in grad school I would have to be better with the procrastination).
I deep down do not think the job market will be that much better myself, but that was me trying to be more optimistic for once. I know the job market is horrendous right now, and it is difficult for me not to be highly pessimistic about it. I do see as getting a master's as possibly helping me reach my goals, but at the same time I wonder if I would just be stuck in the same boat as I am not with my BA. I do not want to spend two years of my life and money for nothing in the end(If I was younger, I probably would be more sure about going to grad school, but a part of me really wants to get on with life).
I am highly confident that I know how to present myself in a professional matter. I have been working for nearly seven years in a library where I have to be professional. I certainly do not go emailing people saying "LOL" and the such. Teachers have told me how there is students that actually email them with "text speak" and it staggers my mind that a student would.
Thank you!
@ the other people who responded: While I do really want to get out into the "real world", I also know if I do not do my masters now, I probably will never ever go back to do it.
Last edited by Flamedown; 07-14-2012 at 07:22 PM..
I've seen alot of GIS jobs. ALOT of GIS jobs. Alot of them ask for some type of programming language, server experience, ArcGIS v9, v10, ArcGIS for Server, SQL,Crystal Reports, Python etc
The beauty of the above is that it is very very easy to get experience with these (note I didn't say proficiency. That's the hard part).
Using some technical skills that I garnered while in college, I was able to build a fully functioning web mapping application using Windows Server, Windows 7, some lite programming, ArcGIS , ArcCatalog and ArcGIS Server. There are trials of all these applications available for use.
Data sets can often be obtained from your local government. CAL-ATLAS
Census.
Walk outside and collect your own data. Geocode this and slap it onto a map. Throw in some feel good social justice and have everyone talking about your application.
Get experience with these BEFORE you graduate and I promise you'll have a job waiting for you. Atleast that was my experience. They don't teach these apps as much as they should in many geography departments because the social science guys who probably head the department don't appropriate the funds and don't see the computing side as the cash cow that it is (hence why our education may have a GIS tract however we still get an BA -_- ); focusing only on desktop GIS (which is limited) but this is where the field is heading. The stuff they have you do in school doesn't really apply to the real world. In school you will probably focus on mapping stuff like income and race with data sets bundled up all nicely for you just waiting for you to hit apply.
In the real world, you'll have to define the problem you're trying to solve, collect and normalize the data, and deliver based on the customers requirements in a variety of formats. You have to work with massive, messy datasets and work your GIS applications so that they produce the desired results each time. This requires more than point and click action. Programming experience is necessary.
If you want to make major bank and be portable at the same time skip the MA and get a MS in computer science. A guy with MS in CS going to be picked before an MA in Geog for GIS applications -guaranteed- (notwithstanding experience)
I've seen alot of GIS jobs. ALOT of GIS jobs. Alot of them ask for some type of programming language, server experience, ArcGIS v9, v10, ArcGIS for Server, SQL,Crystal Reports, Python etc
The beauty of the above is that it is very very easy to get experience with these (note I didn't say proficiency. That's the hard part).
Using some technical skills that I garnered while in college, I was able to build a fully functioning web mapping application using Windows Server, Windows 7, some lite programming, ArcGIS , ArcCatalog and ArcGIS Server. There are trials of all these applications available for use.
Data sets can often be obtained from your local government. CAL-ATLAS
Census.
Walk outside and collect your own data. Geocode this and slap it onto a map. Throw in some feel good social justice and have everyone talking about your application.
Get experience with these BEFORE you graduate and I promise you'll have a job waiting for you. Atleast that was my experience. They don't teach these apps as much as they should in many geography departments because the social science guys who probably head the department don't appropriate the funds and don't see the computing side as the cash cow that it is (hence why our education may have a GIS tract however we still get an BA -_- ); focusing only on desktop GIS (which is limited) but this is where the field is heading. The stuff they have you do in school doesn't really apply to the real world. In school you will probably focus on mapping stuff like income and race with data sets bundled up all nicely for you just waiting for you to hit apply.
In the real world, you'll have to define the problem you're trying to solve, collect and normalize the data, and deliver based on the customers requirements in a variety of formats. You have to work with massive, messy datasets and work your GIS applications so that they produce the desired results each time. This requires more than point and click action. Programming experience is necessary.
If you want to make major bank and be portable at the same time skip the MA and get a MS in computer science. A guy with MS in CS going to be picked before an MA in Geog for GIS applications -guaranteed- (notwithstanding experience)
How much of a typical GIS job today is spent working on the programming side would you say?
I honestly would maybe even rethink doing GIS altogether if I am mostly have to do programing. I do not have much interest at all in programing for I just do not find it that interesting, plus math is not my strong suit, and if I had interest in it, I would have gotten my BA in computer science for I knew even before I did a degree in geography that it is more employable.
I have done something along the lines that you mention for a project I did for one of my classes. I had to find the data, and build up the database, and it took many hours to do. I did enjoy it, but I did not have to do any programing to accomplish it.
How much of a typical GIS job today is spent working on the programming side would you say?
It depends. For the typical boring fresh out of school spatial analysis and mapping, as you can tell virtually no programming is required except some SQL and maybe a bit of Python. However there is a reason these jobs aren't as plentiful. Lots of folks can do this, which is why you see less postings for this type of position, and more postings asking for the technical focus that you may not have the right skills for (as I mentioned). Remote sensing is also not as plentiful.
Simply put, and someone correct me if i'm wrong, I believe you will find increased opportunity, wealth and employability if you embrace the programming aspect, even just a little. It's hard if you aren't used to it, but that's the hand we're dealt. It deals with the delivery of the product to the end customer. Banks, insurance, OIL&GAS (<-$$$) want safe and secure access to their Geographic data in a format that they can use, either hooked into something like a customer database or running as it's own application on a web site, which alot of internal folks can use all at once to answer various questions. This is how a business derives value from their investment in GIS. However, Schools often enough don't (or can't) teach this essential side of GIS, and employers are increasingly demanding it (but can't find enough grads with CS prowess and geospatial skills). Acquire both aspects of the trade, you won't ever have to worry about finding a job.
You need real world on-site job experience. At 26 you wont be entering the workforce with your MA until your 28 (at the earliest) and a 28 year old with no job experience will be in an even worse predicament then what you're already facing.
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