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No one is as "pro college" as I am. Yet, not only did I not belong to a fraternity in college, I never even considered it. Nor, did any of my friends. I've met people since who did belong to them and I usually hear nothing other than stories about all the drinking and partying they did. Does anyone here joining one is a good idea for a college student? If so, why?
Being a Greek is what you make of it. No, not all survive just to drink and party, most have philintropic work they do, in fact I think they all do. Belonging, doesn't only help you to form friends and have a feeling of belonging from the day you pledge, but it helps form life long friends and yes, connections. Just because you didn't find the need for joining or you just never thought about it, doesn't mean it is one big party or others do not enjoy the fellowship. Are you going to tell us, kids who do not belong to Greek organizations do not party? Please don't try to push that agenda, it just isn't true.
My kids all grew up knowing I am almost rabid anti-frat. I remain so. I told my kids that if they ever wanted to join a frat they would do it on their own with their own money.
At their core I think they are an instant set of friends, that are bought through membership. They justify their selectivity in various ways, but it comes to to membership that fits specific socio-economic groups.
I won't deny that the networking and comraderie inherent to frats is useful. For some people, having a group to bond with right away is useful. But instead I would choose a school where the frat wasn't a preferred way to achieve that.
There is never any "good news" about a frat. The community service most do is for appearances sake. Working a few hours at Habitat for Humanity is no special thing for a frat. No frat, in spite of their supposed clout, gets written about for a wonderful social deed. Instead someone dies because of alcohol poisoning, or like at Duke last week they host yet another racist party (this time anti-Asian).
No. I am not crazy about them. It's essentially about finding a very similar, cloned group of people who basically reinforce each other's demographics along with drinking, partying, and excessive womanizing, all of which are often a big part of the fraternity experience. Some schools such as Notre Dame and Rice do not believe in them, as they find them elitist and divisive, and will forbid such groups from forming or being allowed on campus.
They serve a purpose at a state school having more than 25,000 students and, after taking a dent in your grades for one semester during pledging, you are a "brother," for life. That also means that you can't slack. You'll have to be an ambassador of this fraternity, partake in events, parties, recruitment, councils, and do other things which take time.
First, I think that any private school should think whether they should even be allowed, as did Rice. I think no religious university should allow them at all, as Notre Dame has done, because they are exclusive as opposed to inclusive, and that's not what Christ was about. I also wonder why, at satellite commuter schools of bigger schools, they are even necessary? I'd bet that these same people would become friends and hang out together because of classes and intramural activities. I couldn't imagine the necessity of a Greek system at UW's Tacoma branch, or UMinn Duluth, or other regional satellite campuses of a much larger mother system.
They are not for everyone. At some campuses, the represent 5 to 7 percent of the student body. At others, they represent 25 to 27 percent of the student body. If Greek is not for you, don't attend the latter type of school.
What in the world does religion have to do with this? Why would you say something like this? It is up to the school, private or public, but religion isn't an issue.
Basically, I am pro Greek organizations and you are not, but we both have a similar view: they are for some and not for others and they surely have a place in a very large university.
I will add, I come from a mixed family: my father and his sister were Greek, as was I. My husbands parents didn't even graduate from high school and the family members, hubby age that went to college did not join frats and sororities. Some of their kids, later did as did our oldest daughter. Our second daughter pledged but did not go active. The same with our grandaughters. One was very gung hoo sorority, the other was not. Our son in laws were both in frats. So, I have seen both sides.
I work at a university in the Deep South. Recently, sociologist James W. Loewen visited and delivered a lecture on the Lost Cause in American consciousness. So his presentation had a lot to do with the Civil War and Americans' mis-remembering of it, its causes, and its legacy. During the Q&A, a student from the Pacific Northwest noted how Greek culture on campus inculcates (or at the very least perpetuates) racism and sexism. Loewen responded quite forcefully in calling Greek organizations "a social problem." He acknowledged that many do indeed perform community service, but only to maintain their charters. He noted a minority of Greek organizations that do not practice racial discrimination and are actually good models upon which to build a more viable Greek system--but he also claimed he wasn't holding his breath.
Particularly the frats at my state university are hopelessly racist. Their houses are mock plantation style estates and I hear they have an "Old South" party that's Greek-wide--but they do it off campus so as to not draw attention to themselves. Driving down Frat Row, you see a cornucopia of Confederate battle flags and signs supporting hard-right reactionary Republican politicians--many of whom have made public statements about their nostalgia for the Confederacy.
As a history instructor, I take serious issue with Greek organizations' perpetuation of historical myths and legends. I also object to the outright racism and sexism that goes on in the frats and sororities. Drinking and drug abuse are problems in and of themselves, but I think many of those involved in that kind of behavior will eventually grow out of it (while some might be on a road to serious addiction). I believe the false history, the racism, and the sexism, however, are here to stay and in that regard, I agree with Loewen's assessment: Greek organizations are indeed a social problem.
Please note that I only addressed a few concerns. I did not mention, until now, how Greek organizations offer "academic support" in the form of outright cheating and academic dishonesty. Not all of them do it, but most of them do and I have the honor code violation forms here to prove it. Nine students out of 10 convicted of academic dishonesty on this campus are involved in Greek organizations.
I am sure you see mosr racism in the southern univerities than others, but remember, there are a lot of national black frats as well. There is a new Hispanic one at the U of A. It isn't a national greek organization but it is a sorority.
From your comments, it appears you are very opinionated on the subject and can not see two sides to every story.
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I was anti-frat in college, but these days I am far less judgmental. What works for some students does not for others.
My son has been spending time with a Fraternity and he's been enjoying it. He is not a member, and according to his university, he can not rush until sophomore year. He tells me that the guys in the fraternity are a diverse group. Not all are jocks and none fit the "Animal House" stereotype. There are some brothers who are involved in college sports but others are not. There is nothing wrong with that. They also come from a variety of backgrounds, both socio-economic and ethnic. A lot of them enjoy chess, as does my son.
They also represent a variety of political points of view, from conservative to liberal and everything in-between.
Most do have an opinion, and the watched the debates this past Fall.
There was a big Super Bowl Party as one might expect, but they are as
a group, interested in other things.
Community service is a requirement for membership, which appeals to me.
There is no hazing which as a mom, also appeals to me.
This is a National Fraternity, and it was honored by former Pres. Reagan, who he himself was a member, as were many other notable people.
As to the allegations of "buying friends" I disagree vigorously. Most people are friends first, and rushed second.
I would agree that it's an option that works for some students. There are also many types of fraternities, not all of them fit the stereotype portrayed in the movie "Animal House".
At most large universities (SEC, Big 10, etc.) being in a fraternity will cause the ladies to perceive you to be twice as attractive. Taking a leadership role in a fraternity (president, treasurer, etc.) is also a great way to prepare yourself to take on similar challenges in the professional world down the road. Many POTUS's were first presidents of their college frats, for example.
I'm not saying partying and chicks isn't a huge fringe benefit to being in a frat, but to answer the OP's question, yes there is more to it than that.
Last edited by toobusytoday; 02-13-2013 at 02:03 PM..
Reason: removed inappropriate language
I am sure you see mosr racism in the southern univerities than others, but remember, there are a lot of national black frats as well. There is a new Hispanic one at the U of A. It isn't a national greek organization but it is a sorority.
From your comments, it appears you are very opinionated on the subject and can not see two sides to every story.
He (She?) is not the only one who can not see two sides to every story.
Why you are so sure that you see more racism in southern universities? I am really really really tired of that unwarranted stereotype. There is plenty of racism at non southern universities.
What in the world does religion have to do with this? Why would you say something like this? It is up to the school, private or public, but religion isn't an issue.
Basically, I am pro Greek organizations and you are not, but we both have a similar view: they are for some and not for others and they surely have a place in a very large university.
Religion does have something to do with it. Notre Dame does not want them. As much as I can't stand Notre Dame, there's a reason for their policy. They try to make it an inclusive experience for everybody. Once people get in there, they get a good education and their basis for socializing is their living quarters and other organizations. OTOH, I can't say I've met many, if any, Notre Dame grads I liked, but that's off topic.
I have relatives in Europe who are very loosely Catholic, as all Europeans seem to be these days. I was explaining a situation that occurred at a fraternity that made some news, moreover at a Catholic school. I had to explain what a fraternity and a sorority were. My relative instantly remarked "it doesn't sound very Catholic to have clubs like that around." I was stunned, that this is what a liberal minded European would say. Let's face it. It's about conformity, for the most part.
I see you are in Arkansas, and that you had a "mixed-Greek" family. Chalk your spin on this to different demographics. I'm first-gen and none of my cousins, most of whom went to brand-name state schools, whether in the tri-state NY area, FL, or CA were a part of the Greek system. That's not our style.
Last edited by robertpolyglot; 02-13-2013 at 01:41 PM..
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