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I don't think that is part of it, at all or in most cases. For some of us, we had friends that were Greek and some that were GDIs, our kids and grandkids did as well. I married a GDI. Of course most of your friends are going to be those you have some tie to, so they will be the kids in your frat or sorortiy, but only someone who wants to think the way you are thinking believes this.
He (She?) is not the only one who can not see two sides to every story.
Why you are so sure that you see more racism in southern universities? I am really really really tired of that unwarranted stereotype. There is plenty of racism at non southern universities.
There is raciam everywhere, and most of us have some bigotted views, whether it is based on a persons looks, size, background, religion, education or lack of the same. I certainly am not saying there is no racism on college campuses, but it applies everywhere. All the examples you are giving refer to he said/she said.
Religion does have something to do with it. Notre Dame does not want them. As much as I can't stand Notre Dame, there's a reason for their policy. They try to make it an inclusive experience for everybody. Once people get in there, they get a good education and their basis for socializing is their living quarters and other organizations. OTOH, I can't say I've met many, if any, Notre Dame grads I liked, but that's off topic.
I have relatives in Europe who are very loosely Catholic, as all Europeans seem to be these days. I was explaining a situation that occurred at a fraternity that made some news, moreover at a Catholic school. I had to explain what a fraternity and a sorority were. My relative instantly remarked "it doesn't sound very Catholic to have clubs like that around." I was stunned, that this is what a liberal minded European would say. Let's face it. It's about conformity, for the most part.
I see you are in Arkansas, and that you had a "mixed-Greek" family. Chalk your spin on this to different demographics. I'm first-gen and none of my cousins, most of whom went to brand-name state schools, whether in the tri-state NY area, FL, or CA were a part of the Greek system. That's not our style.
Oh heavens, this is a case of your seeing only where I live and nothing else. I am retired, have lived in AR for a total of 5 years and have lived all over the country. My dad and aunt were Greeks, at the Univesity of Co in the 30s, I was, at the SDSU in Ca my daughter and her husband, in Ca and our niece in Florida. I could go on and on, this has absolutely nothing to do with AR.
As for not your style, that is fine, I know it isn't for everyone. If it was, there would be more who belong, but religion still has nothing to do with this. Yes, Norte Dame has chosen not to have Greek organizations, which is fine, some religious schools do have them. This is something every school has to decide and every your person has to decide...There is no right or wrong.
I don't think that is part of it, at all or in most cases. For some of us, we had friends that were Greek and some that were GDIs, our kids and grandkids did as well. I married a GDI. Of course most of your friends are going to be those you have some tie to, so they will be the kids in your frat or sorortiy, but only someone who wants to think the way you are thinking believes this.
Nita
And on what rational basis do young kids at school pick one of these clubs to join?
Other organizations have a stated purpose and common interest - an inner cityvolunteer organization, a running enthusiasts' club, a sports team, etc.
The only practical basis on which a young kid picks from twenty social clubs with random greek letters, pledge rituals, and their own themed house parties is perceived social reputation. It's a huge pecking order / popularity game, and everyone around the greek system knows it.
There is raciam everywhere, and most of us have some bigotted views, whether it is based on a persons looks, size, background, religion, education or lack of the same. I certainly am not saying there is no racism on college campuses, but it applies everywhere. All the examples you are giving refer to he said/she said.
It is unfair and unwarranted to tar the entire south with the racist tag. That is what I responded to in the first place. Racism is not any worse in the south than it is anywhere else.
No one is as "pro college" as I am. Yet, not only did I not belong to a fraternity in college, I never even considered it. Nor, did any of my friends. I've met people since who did belong to them and I usually hear nothing other than stories about all the drinking and partying they did. Does anyone here joining one is a good idea for a college student? If so, why?
If you go to a large school seeking friends, pledging to a fraternity or sorority may be for you. Just keep in mind though, if you have other avenues of making friends at a big college, partying associations may not be your cup of tea. Greek membership is potentially costly in addition to all your other financial obligations at college. I wasn't into heavy partying and drinking, so being in such a group did not matter to me one way or the other. The associated cost would have mattered because I did not have a lot of extra money in college. I found ways to make friends in other college-related organizations.
Also, being in such a group can really eat up your time away from studying or working and you need to be serious about that especially as a freshman. Maybe you can consider joining when you are sophomore after you know more about how the college social life works. I think it depends more on what you want and if you talk to others, you will get more of the pros and cons.
And on what rational basis do young kids at school pick one of these clubs to join?
Other organizations have a stated purpose and common interest - an inner cityvolunteer organization, a running enthusiasts' club, a sports team, etc.
The only practical basis on which a young kid picks from twenty social clubs with random greek letters, pledge rituals, and their own themed house parties is perceived social reputation. It's a huge pecking order / popularity game, and everyone around the greek system knows it.
it is a feeling they get from meeting others for a short period of time or maybe it is a family tradition. Oh, let me add, Greek organizations do a lot of charity work, if anyone thinks it is just social, re-think that, and remember grades are important as well. A certain GPA is required to go active. some of what you say is true but does that make it wrong for those who want to belong? I don't think so..
It is unfair and unwarranted to tar the entire south with the racist tag. That is what I responded to in the first place. Racism is not any worse in the south than it is anywhere else.
For heavens sake I live in the south: why would I want to do that and where did you get the idea that was my intentions? I guess I said something that you took the wrong way. If so, I am sorry..
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Originally Posted by tvdxer
My college did not have fraternities or sororities. The one a mile down did, though, if I remember correctly. My sister's best friend is now in a sorority at the U of M (main campus), and she paid like $1,000 just to get in. I guess the hazing practices have changed from physical to financial.
I used to think the same thing about "frats" as you, but at some point I realized that frat brothers (or sorority sisters) remain loyal to their frat longer after they graduate, and that it is great for networking. In addition, they can provide support and camraderie at a tumultuous time in many youths' lives.
I actually was never interested in them for myself, and as as undergrad, I looked down on them as something "old school", a hang over from the 1920s -1950s, perpetuating a "good old boy"stereotype, violent, drunk, sexist, misogynistic, and across the board everything that I despised. As far as sororities went, they like Frats were non-existent at my Northeast, liberal leaning, intellectual school. We were "above" all of that. Sorority sisters , I thought were vapid, a political and superficial women, who deferred to men, and perpetuated the "status quo". Confomist girls, who were overly interested in matters I deemed superficial.
The fact that the movie "Animal House" came out smack dab in the middle of my chronological college career, did nothing but to further buttress my belief, that fraternities and sororities have their roots planted firmly in a bygone generation. If one were to use the early 1960s time frame of "Animal House" as a socially transitional and definitive time in American college life, and by extension, in America; as many social and cultural historians have, it seemed that a case can be made then and now, that fraternities and sororities were cultural relics of a bygone era.
In fact, one pretty much would have had to search far and wide to find a detractor of these groups more vociferous and negative than myself. Yes, I hated them withe the hatred that only a nineteen year old can summon.
They also reminded me of my parents, who were both members. Kiss of death, at the time.
Now, I would take each fraternity and sorority individually and look upon their merits, or lack there of, as part of a whole, allowing that while there are some that commit dastardly acts, but most are only seeking a deeper and more intimate relationship with their college aged peers.
No one can deny that national organizations provide a lifelong network of friends and associates. I see nothing wrong in that. For some the life lived at a Greek organization with an actual house, can be a welcome alternative to the confines of dorm life, such as sharing a room, a situation that was once fairly common, today is less common, with smaller families the norm. I recently read that fewer college students today are willing to share a room than ever before, and that most entering freshmen have never had to share a bedroom with a sibling, and have even less interest in sharing a room with an assigned "random stranger", to employ my children's language and perspective.
Where my son attends, there is a Greek presence. It does not seem to overwhelm the student's lives, but Greek live is an option that is available to students. Some enjoy and do seem to and thrive in this environment. There are also so many different types of Fraternities and Sororities around.
Some actually do fit the "Animal House" stereotype quite well, but others do not.
As a Freshman, my son has some friends at a particular frat, and he has enjoyed spending time there. If I were to think of an individual less suited to the "Frat house" mentality that is popularly accepted it would be difficult to not to think of my son, who is an avid reader, politically aware, a vegan, hiker, skater, and student at the College of Fine and Performing Arts.
Yet, he has actually thought about "rushing" one particular fraternity next year. He finds the guys there to be a "chill" and rather laid back, diverse and interesting group of young men.
Now this is something that I never ever would have suspected from my non conforming, "buck the system" son, whose pool of college applications included many from the tree hugging crunchy granola group. It is said that one's children can render quite a few surprises, and one can definably call me shocked, however not appalled.
He is "up in the air" about the subject as I write, but should he decide to join this fraternity that would be his choice. At his college, the option is actually somewhat less expensive. than is living in the dorms
I don't that that some Greek organizations are all that bad, and paining them all with one broad brush would be unfair.
Well, the more religious and smaller the college is, the less likely they will be there. I wonder how popular they are at UMD. Generally, they are huge at big schools in college towns. At big schools in urban centers, they figure less prominent. I would expect them to be less important at UM main campus than, say, Indiana at Bloomington, staying within the Big 10 for example.
How do you explain them on the Baylor or SMU campuses for starters?
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