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I actually was never interested in them for myself, and as as undergrad, I looked down on them as something "old school", a hang over from the 1920s -1950s, perpetuating a "good old boy"stereotype, violent, drunk, sexist, misogynistic, and across the board everything that I despised. As far as sororities went, they like Frats were non-existent at my Northeast, liberal leaning, intellectual school. We were "above" all of that. Sorority sisters , I thought were vapid, a political and superficial women, who deferred to men, and perpetuated the "status quo". Confomist girls, who were overly interested in matters I deemed superficial.
The fact that the movie "Animal House" came out smack dab in the middle of my chronological college career, did nothing but to further buttress my belief, that fraternities and sororities have their roots planted firmly in a bygone generation. If one were to use the early 1960s time frame of "Animal House" as a socially transitional and definitive time in American college life, and by extension, in America; as many social and cultural historians have, it seemed that a case can be made then and now, that fraternities and sororities were cultural relics of a bygone era.
In fact, one pretty much would have had to search far and wide to find a detractor of these groups more vociferous and negative than myself. Yes, I hated them withe the hatred that only a nineteen year old can summon.
They also reminded me of my parents, who were both members. Kiss of death, at the time.
Now, I would take each fraternity and sorority individually and look upon their merits, or lack there of, as part of a whole, allowing that while there are some that commit dastardly acts, but most are only seeking a deeper and more intimate relationship with their college aged peers.
No one can deny that national organizations provide a lifelong network of friends and associates. I see nothing wrong in that. For some the life lived at a Greek organization with an actual house, can be a welcome alternative to the confines of dorm life, such as sharing a room, a situation that was once fairly common, today is less common, with smaller families the norm. I recently read that fewer college students today are willing to share a room than ever before, and that most entering freshmen have never had to share a bedroom with a sibling, and have even less interest in sharing a room with an assigned "random stranger", to employ my children's language and perspective.
Where my son attends, there is a Greek presence. It does not seem to overwhelm the student's lives, but Greek live is an option that is available to students. Some enjoy and do seem to and thrive in this environment. There are also so many different types of Fraternities and Sororities around.
Some actually do fit the "Animal House" stereotype quite well, but others do not.
As a Freshman, my son has some friends at a particular frat, and he has enjoyed spending time there. If I were to think of an individual less suited to the "Frat house" mentality that is popularly accepted it would be difficult to not to think of my son, who is an avid reader, politically aware, a vegan, hiker, skater, and student at the College of Fine and Performing Arts.
Yet, he has actually thought about "rushing" one particular fraternity next year. He finds the guys there to be a "chill" and rather laid back, diverse and interesting group of young men.
Now this is something that I never ever would have suspected from my non conforming, "buck the system" son, whose pool of college applications included many from the tree hugging crunchy granola group. It is said that one's children can render quite a few surprises, and one can definably call me shocked, however not appalled.
He is "up in the air" about the subject as I write, but should he decide to join this fraternity that would be his choice. At his college, the option is actually somewhat less expensive. than is living in the dorms
I don't that that some Greek organizations are all that bad, and paining them all with one broad brush would be unfair.
My daughters best friend could tell a story similar to yours. She was in a sorority, in fact that is how she and my daughter became friends about 25 years ago...But her own kids were very anti any type of organization. Karens daughter is a raving lib, very anti what we might think of as establishment, is a vegetarian but not a true vegan and very much into the enviornment and outdoor life. In fact, her first year in college she attended U of NM on a swimming scholarship. Well between her soph and Jr year at OU she was went on a student tour and her roommate just happened to be a Greek. They hit off so well, she decided to pledge and now, she is out of school and still very close to her sorority. One just doesn't know when it is right for a young person to consider frat or sorority membership.. It is hard for me to understand, just because something isn't right for one, people can think it isn't right period.
Yes, this was in Texas and no, that is not how the formal rush process works.
Sorority rush varies a little from campus to campus but by and large it works like this:
Open house...this is the round where you visit every house and meet everyone. At my university this took two days because we had fifteen sororities.
Round 1: First cut; you were allowed to accept a maximum of ten invitations back to houses. Most students did not receive ten invitations. If you received more than ten, you had to decline some of them. If you received ten or less, you had to attend all of the round 1 parties.
Round 2: Second cut; you were allowed to accept a maximum of five invitations.
Round 3: Third cut; you were allowed to accept a maximum of three.
"Preffing": After the third round of parties, you list the groups you want to join in order of preference. Some girls "suicide" for one sorority by writing only one name down. This is not recommended.
Bid Day: After the rushees' preferences are matched by the bids sororities are offering to potential new members, you are called back to a convocation to receive your bid. You are notified before the convocation if you did not receive a bid, so you won't show up and be embarrassed. Unless you "suicided", you do not know which sorority offered you a bid until you open your envelope. The sorority also does not know exactly who is showing up on bid day until they show up. Most bids are accepted, but not all are.
After you see your bid, you can accept it or reject it. If you accept it, you go to your new sorority's house and officially become a "pledge". A pledge is a provisional member until she is fully initiated. In some sororities this takes a few weeks; in others it takes almost the entire freshman year.
That's how the formal rush process worked at my university...in a nutshell.
BigD, you are pretty spot on. This is pretty much how it worked at the college I went to.
I always looked at frats and sororities as ways for the cool kids from high school to stay apart of a clique or social setting that they were familiar with when other college students tend to float between groups.
Quote:
Originally Posted by ambient
College fraternities and sororities exist for the same reasons that high school cliques do: many young people have an inherent, nature-driven need to stratify themselves into social castes in an attempt to maximize their social stature. The greek system is nothing other than a social caste system. It is entirely driven by ego.
^These posts are how I always saw them, although thankfully, though we had a Greek presence at my university, it wasn't the be-all-and-end-all...just an option. I went to a pretty technical school though, most of the majors are architecture and engineering, although they are beginning to branch out a little more now. So I think that may have had something to do with it.
The two biggest reasons I didn't join a sorority were:
-I'm not into cliques, I tended to make friends in my classes and joined up with lots of different people..I have never been the type to fit into a group...typically I will hang out with a couple people, we may all be friends, or they may just know me
-Time. I had anywhere between 12-17 credits per semester, sometimes between 2 different schools (community college offered classes that my university didn't, so I took them in order to pass a certification exam that gave me 9 credits toward my degree), and I worked anywhere from 20-40 hours per week. I also commuted to school, as did probably 75% of the students. I barely had time for sleep, much less the sheer amount of time a sorority would require. Plus I would rather spend that money on other stuff. It feels more like buying into a club than making new friends
I do remember as a freshman, during rush, this girl that was a senior and had gone to my elementary school (it was k-8th) came up to talk to me, I was impressed that she remembered me since we barely spoke in elementary school....she invited me to come hang out with her friends ("we have food!") and it turned out she was trying to recruit me for her sorority. I ate their food and didn't go back as I had no interest but I guess it was a nice gesture.
I have friends who did join frats and spent the better part of freshman year pledging and having to do all this stupid crap...I just don't see the point, I can make friends and go out and party with them without all that ritualistic stuff. It's a waste of time to me. If someone is going to be a life long friend, I want it to be because they enjoy our friendship, not because we both pay $$ to an organization that requires us to talk to each other. Now i do know people who joined professional frats that were about networking into your field and making connections rather than drunken nights and scoring chicks, those actually seem useful, and I can see paying dues for that as it actually benefits you in the long run.
^These posts are how I always saw them, although thankfully, though we had a Greek presence at my university, it wasn't the be-all-and-end-all...just an option. I went to a pretty technical school though, most of the majors are architecture and engineering, although they are beginning to branch out a little more now. So I think that may have had something to do with it.
The two biggest reasons I didn't join a sorority were:
-I'm not into cliques, I tended to make friends in my classes and joined up with lots of different people..I have never been the type to fit into a group...typically I will hang out with a couple people, we may all be friends, or they may just know me
-Time. I had anywhere between 12-17 credits per semester, sometimes between 2 different schools (community college offered classes that my university didn't, so I took them in order to pass a certification exam that gave me 9 credits toward my degree), and I worked anywhere from 20-40 hours per week. I also commuted to school, as did probably 75% of the students. I barely had time for sleep, much less the sheer amount of time a sorority would require. Plus I would rather spend that money on other stuff. It feels more like buying into a club than making new friends
I do remember as a freshman, during rush, this girl that was a senior and had gone to my elementary school (it was k-8th) came up to talk to me, I was impressed that she remembered me since we barely spoke in elementary school....she invited me to come hang out with her friends ("we have food!") and it turned out she was trying to recruit me for her sorority. I ate their food and didn't go back as I had no interest but I guess it was a nice gesture.
I have friends who did join frats and spent the better part of freshman year pledging and having to do all this stupid crap...I just don't see the point, I can make friends and go out and party with them without all that ritualistic stuff. It's a waste of time to me. If someone is going to be a life long friend, I want it to be because they enjoy our friendship, not because we both pay $$ to an organization that requires us to talk to each other. Now i do know people who joined professional frats that were about networking into your field and making connections rather than drunken nights and scoring chicks, those actually seem useful, and I can see paying dues for that as it actually benefits you in the long run.
wow, I wonder what college you attended because your story about being recrutted isn't how sorority rush works at any school I have ever heard of: maybe you are talking about a post rush or what is sometimes called open rush season? The story you give about frats and sorority pledges being busy doing crap, doesn't sound like the Greeks I have known, from many schools, including ones that have a lot of engineering students like Purdue. It doesn't sound like the experience friends had at Stanford either. You say you want your lifelong friends to be those you enjoy being with, you don't think that is the bonds that can be created when a person chooses to belong to a Greek organization?
You mention you have friends who joined frats, how about female friends who pledged sororties? I am wondering, from some of your comments, if the Greeks organizations you encourtered were national sororities and fraternities or just local ones, more like social clubs.
I will add, if you went to a school that was primarily a commute school the situation can be very different than a school where a good number of the students are not local.
You do give good reasons why the Greek life would not have been for you, but I also think you have a vision of what it is like to be a Greek wrong.
Religion does have something to do with it. Notre Dame does not want them. As much as I can't stand Notre Dame, there's a reason for their policy. They try to make it an inclusive experience for everybody. Once people get in there, they get a good education and their basis for socializing is their living quarters and other organizations.
Notre Dame may not sanction Greek organizations, but plenty of private, parochial/historically religiously affialiated colleges and universities of various sizes do allow them. I went to a Lutheran college that has Greek organizations. My sister went to a Methodist college that had them. My brother went to a college affiliated (loosely) with United Church of Christ...they had frats and sororities. I know many people who were active in Greek life at small, private liberal arts college that were affiliated with various religious groups. They weren't necessarily the stereotypical "Animal House" style Greek organizations, and they weren't necessarily the huge presence they are at some universities...as noted, at my alma mater, they weren't a pervasive presence, just more like one of a million clubs you could be involved in. But it would be inaccurate to say that religiously affiliated schools as a rule do not allow or include Greek organizations as an extraurricular. Plenty do. It's not really my style, either, but it was definitely there as an option for people who were into that sort of thing.
Even though Greek life wasn't pervasive or especially annoying at my school, there were plenty of people who found it divisive and irksome, and would loudly and proudly proclaim themselves "GDI!!!" Thing is, all those "independents" were certainly active in a variety of other clubs and organizations on campus. They certainly had groups of friends with whom they socialized. There wasn't much that made them different than those participating in the frats and sororities. Crap, I was in theatre and the touring choir, and the theatre kids and choir geek kids CERTAINLY stuck together and formed an insular community in a way that would make fraternities and sororities look like the most welcoming, inclusive groups in the world. Most college kids look for groups of people with whom they feel they belong, and smugly pretending otherwise because you don't wear sweatshirts embroidered with Greek letters is more than likely a little disingenuous.
Notre Dame may not sanction Greek organizations, but plenty of private, parochial/historically religiously affialiated colleges and universities of various sizes do allow them. I went to a Lutheran college that has Greek organizations. My sister went to a Methodist college that had them. My brother went to a college affiliated (loosely) with United Church of Christ...they had frats and sororities. I know many people who were active in Greek life at small, private liberal arts college that were affiliated with various religious groups. They weren't necessarily the stereotypical "Animal House" style Greek organizations, and they weren't necessarily the huge presence they are at some universities...as noted, at my alma mater, they weren't a pervasive presence, just more like one of a million clubs you could be involved in. But it would be inaccurate to say that religiously affiliated schools as a rule do not allow or include Greek organizations as an extraurricular. Plenty do. It's not really my style, either, but it was definitely there as an option for people who were into that sort of thing.
Even though Greek life wasn't pervasive or especially annoying at my school, there were plenty of people who found it divisive and irksome, and would loudly and proudly proclaim themselves "GDI!!!" Thing is, all those "independents" were certainly active in a variety of other clubs and organizations on campus. They certainly had groups of friends with whom they socialized. There wasn't much that made them different than those participating in the frats and sororities. Crap, I was in theatre and the touring choir, and the theatre kids and choir geek kids CERTAINLY stuck together and formed an insular community in a way that would make fraternities and sororities look like the most welcoming, inclusive groups in the world. Most college kids look for groups of people with whom they feel they belong, and smugly pretending otherwise because you don't wear sweatshirts embroidered with Greek letters is more than likely a little disingenuous.
I have noticed, that poster hasn't been back for about 10 days to discuss the subject anymore. I guess he has gone onto other subjects and doesn't have an argument left for this subject..
As a Freshman, my son has some friends at a particular frat, and he has enjoyed spending time there. If I were to think of an individual less suited to the "Frat house" mentality that is popularly accepted it would be difficult to not to think of my son, who is an avid reader, politically aware, a vegan, hiker, skater, and student at the College of Fine and Performing Arts.
Yet, he has actually thought about "rushing" one particular fraternity next year. He finds the guys there to be a "chill" and rather laid back, diverse and interesting group of young men.
Now this is something that I never ever would have suspected from my non conforming, "buck the system" son, whose pool of college applications included many from the tree hugging crunchy granola group. It is said that one's children can render quite a few surprises, and one can definably call me shocked, however not appalled.
I was also quite surprised that my son pledged a fraternity. He fits the jock stereotype but he is a serious student, well read and politically aware. He also told me that one of the fraternities on campus had extended a bid to a woman who is awaiting a sex change operation. They were stopped by the national organization which said that they have to wait for the gender reassignment to be final. So at least at his school the Greeks seem to be accepting of all sorts.
No one is as "pro college" as I am. Yet, not only did I not belong to a fraternity in college, I never even considered it. Nor, did any of my friends. I've met people since who did belong to them and I usually hear nothing other than stories about all the drinking and partying they did. Does anyone here joining one is a good idea for a college student? If so, why?
Networking. It's pretty much the only way to get a job these days. I wish I had either majored in engineering (which is still pretty good about selecting people based on their merits) or joined a fraternity. Too late for either though.
it is a feeling they get from meeting others for a short period of time or maybe it is a family tradition. Oh, let me add, Greek organizations do a lot of charity work, if anyone thinks it is just social, re-think that, and remember grades are important as well. A certain GPA is required to go active. some of what you say is true but does that make it wrong for those who want to belong? I don't think so..
I went to college, and I saw a lot of frats and sororities up close. Their primary reason for existence was basically a big popularity contest. The GPA requirements, if they exist, are pathetically low. They have their token charity events, but it's really about partying, sex, binge drinking. I saw this every weekend up close and personal - didn't matter which house. I went through a day of rush, and the lure for guys is basically how they have the coolest guys who have access to the most sought-after sorority pus sy. It was quite blatant. If you think this is not the norm, then you probably have been out of college for a long time.
Of course people make some real friends through their frats and whatnot, but given the inherently superficial structure of frats and sororities, it is in spite of them and not because of them.
wow, I wonder what college you attended because your story about being recrutted isn't how sorority rush works at any school I have ever heard of: maybe you are talking about a post rush or what is sometimes called open rush season? The story you give about frats and sorority pledges being busy doing crap, doesn't sound like the Greeks I have known, from many schools, including ones that have a lot of engineering students like Purdue. It doesn't sound like the experience friends had at Stanford either. You say you want your lifelong friends to be those you enjoy being with, you don't think that is the bonds that can be created when a person chooses to belong to a Greek organization?
You mention you have friends who joined frats, how about female friends who pledged sororties? I am wondering, from some of your comments, if the Greeks organizations you encourtered were national sororities and fraternities or just local ones, more like social clubs.
I will add, if you went to a school that was primarily a commute school the situation can be very different than a school where a good number of the students are not local.
You do give good reasons why the Greek life would not have been for you, but I also think you have a vision of what it is like to be a Greek wrong.
It's very possible that it was an open rush season, as you can see I'm not super familiar with how the whole rush/recruiting/whatnot process works. I also can't speak to if the Greek organizations were national or local chapters. All I know is I just didn't have the time to devote to an organization that had mandatory attendance type rules, I didn't join any clubs at school. My friend went to a different university, she co-oped with me at a company over an hr away from her school, so she lived with some local relatives during our co-op and her sorority sisters were very upset that she couldn't attend the minimum number of events (whatever it is) even though it was usually not feasible to go. It's very possible that a commuter school situation would've been different as far as that goes.
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It is hard for me to understand, just because something isn't right for one, people can think it isn't right period.
as I had no interest but I guess it was a nice gesture.
