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Earlier this year I started a part time evening job at a local Community College where I teach as an Adjunct Instructor in Business Management. It has been quite an experience.
The one thing that bugs me more than anything is students who show up late. I am talking about 30-45 minutes late on a regular basis. (These are 3 hour classes) At 10 minutes after the official class start time I shut the door thinking that would send a message to the students that they are late and the class is already under way but they walk in like they own the place and expect me to stop the class and tell them what they missed.
When I ask them why they were late they usually go mute, or just say something like: "got held up, traffic, or I had other things I had to do."
I try to lecture them about the importance of punctuality but they just look at me like I am crazy and the rest of the class students freeze up and look embarrassed. I see them thinking, "just leave him alone, what's the big thing about being late!"
Are you a college instructor or student? What do you think about students who show up late all the time?
Professors handle late students in many different ways. Some, mark them as tardy, and after so many tardies they are either dropped from the class or fail it.
You are the professor and you basically own the class, not the students. However, I don't think you should completely cut your students off of any discussion. A discussion that would get them involved in the class or provide for further discourse may be beneficial. Since you are a professor and teaching a business management class you can turn it into a positive and relate it to business. As in, if someone walks into the class late you can ask your class something like (you can come up with your own line) "Why does showing up to a business meeting late show poor work ethics and a sense of discontent with the client?
Some students may have jobs, deal with family, or other issues. Also, a lot instructors realize that the student is paying for a class. So if they are late then they are late. Whatever they miss in class is up to them to get or catch up on. Whatever they missed, they can get it from their peers or classmates outside of class.
My solution (eventhough I am not a professor, but have been in college for several years now) is to get the class involved and relate it to the course you are teaching. As in: "Showing up for class can prevent a student from getting the most out of it, but how would showing up to a job or business meeting look?"
As a student, someone coming in late but doing so very quietly didn't distract or bother me as long as the instructor did not point it out or acknowledge it in some way.
What bothers me MORE, as a student, is having classmates who are talking to each other during a lecture, giggling over a YouTube video, or getting up four times during a lecture to answer their phone. I expect the instructor to say something to keep the environment appropriately quiet during a lecture or ask those who are noisy to leave.
My observation from taking community college classes vs taking classes at a university has been surprising. I have observed MUCH more of this obnoxious talking/texting/watching videos during class at the university level. Of course I am sure there are some who are just inconsiderate but generally speaking, it seemed that lateness at the CC was because someone's sitter didn't show up or their one vehicle got a flat on the way to school. At the university, while I'm sure there are plenty of people who don't fit this stereotype, I've seen students who literally stumbled out of bed in their dorm and then stumbled across campus in their pajamas and are late because they just overslept. Then they proceed to text or sleep through class. It annoyed me when I was busting my butt to drive over an hour one way, leaving my house 2 hours before class started to make it on time, and then find and pay for parking, etc.
I don't think you should be trying to manage the class like you would a high school class though. I've had professors who do this; last semester I had a huge lecture hall class where quizzes were given every single day. Class started at 3:30. At 3:33 the doors were locked and the quiz started. Those quizzes made up 20% of the grade. He also had "no leaving" policy. If you took the quiz and left, he'd pull it and give you a zero. If you got up and left to go to the bathroom, no point in returning, you'd get a zero on the quiz. He also had a no computers policy, no "hoodies", no this, no that. I think that was a bit overly controlling and extreme. Need to find some middle ground.
Another professor (again, huge lecture hall) did not lock the doors or care if you were late but he posted questions on the board at the beginning of class and we used an auto-responder "clicker" to answer, and that counted towards our attendance grade. All total it was 10% of the grade. If you showed up halfway through the questions, you could still get a few points.
Finally, another wasn't quite as punitive; he gave out extra credit questions during the first part of class. They were worth quite a bit of points on the exams, and if you weren't there too bad. His exams were pretty hard so this was a good incentive for people to not be late and not skip. Sometimes he'd give out extra questions at the end of class too, and if you had left early you'd miss out. It was all tied to extra credit points.
I would NOT take time to fill students in who were late though. I've always assumed it is my responsibility to get with another student to find out what I missed if I've been late or absent, I wouldn't dream of bugging the instructor about it. This should be clearly stated in the syllabus.
Some excellent suggestions. Again, never update for students that are late. It is their responsibility to get the missed information from a classmate (after class).
One comment that seems to be very common is the students paid for the class and thus have greater rights to do what they want. I don't see the logic in that.
I think it is a question of fairness. Should students who show up 20-40 minutes late on a regular basis and force me to stop the discussion to get them up to speed get extra privileges because they paid for it? If the potentially lazy students who have been coming on time see the late comers getting away with it, maybe more students will come late. Is it fair that the class has to come to a halt every time someone comes in late?
* Because of the nature of the class everyone depends on the hard work and contributions of the other students to make the class a success because the class is not lecture but group projects, role playing, case studies and discussion.
One comment that seems to be very common is the students paid for the class and thus have greater rights to do what they want. I don't see the logic in that.
I think it is a question of fairness. Should students who show up 20-40 minutes late on a regular basis and force me to stop the discussion to get them up to speed get extra privileges because they paid for it? If the potentially lazy students who have been coming on time see the late comers getting away with it, maybe more students will come late. Is it fair that the class has to come to a halt every time someone comes in late?
How can they force you to do anything? You're the boss. You hold all the cards. You're the decider. If participation in group discussions is a key part of the course, and late arrivals aren't able to join in, then that's their problem, and it would affect their grade. Lots of good suggestions have been made here re: how to combat tardiness. You could try one or two out next week, and report back to us. Good luck!
How can they force you to do anything? You're the boss. You hold all the cards. You're the decider. If participation in group discussions is a key part of the course, and late arrivals aren't able to join in, then that's their problem, and it would affect their grade. Lots of good suggestions have been made here re: how to combat tardiness. You could try one or two out next week, and report back to us. Good luck!
My thoughts exactly, couldn't rep you again, but yeah, the instructor is in control here, or should be. There is no way they can force you to stop and fill them in, I would ignore them when they enter late, and if they were to walk in and ask what is going on I'd politely respond that they will need to get with a classmate after class to find out what's happening.
Earlier this year I started a part time evening job at a local Community College where I teach as an Adjunct Instructor in Business Management. It has been quite an experience.
The one thing that bugs me more than anything is students who show up late. I am talking about 30-45 minutes late on a regular basis. (These are 3 hour classes) At 10 minutes after the official class start time I shut the door thinking that would send a message to the students that they are late and the class is already under way but they walk in like they own the place and expect me to stop the class and tell them what they missed.
When I ask them why they were late they usually go mute, or just say something like: "got held up, traffic, or I had other things I had to do."
I try to lecture them about the importance of punctuality but they just look at me like I am crazy and the rest of the class students freeze up and look embarrassed. I see them thinking, "just leave him alone, what's the big thing about being late!"
Are you a college instructor or student? What do you think about students who show up late all the time?
It's rude and unfair to the other students. Sometimes I can't begin my lesson, because I know I'll just have to repeat everything. I can't completely eliminate it, but I can cut down a little by making sure that people who are habitually late are likely to begin to fail the class. I occasionally give some work or a quiz before they get there, and if they're not there then it's a 0. When they get to the point where they are failing, then I finally have some leverage to get them to do what I want.
One comment that seems to be very common is the students paid for the class and thus have greater rights to do what they want. I don't see the logic in that.
I think it is a question of fairness. Should students who show up 20-40 minutes late on a regular basis and force me to stop the discussion to get them up to speed get extra privileges because they paid for it? If the potentially lazy students who have been coming on time see the late comers getting away with it, maybe more students will come late. Is it fair that the class has to come to a halt every time someone comes in late?
* Because of the nature of the class everyone depends on the hard work and contributions of the other students to make the class a success because the class is not lecture but group projects, role playing, case studies and discussion.
No, tardy students should not stop the discussion, be brought up to speed, or get extra privileges. That certainly is not fair to those who come on time or early. Personally, I would not stop teaching, bring them up to speed, or give them any extra privileges. I'd make it known that if you are tardy you are to come in quietly, sit down, and try to get up to speed on your own, and if that's not possible, then perhaps they should get the information they missed from a classmate or see me during my office hours.
* Obviously you cannot depend on these tardy students, so you need to focus on the students who are there on time - that's the fair thing to do.
One comment that seems to be very common is the students paid for the class and thus have greater rights to do what they want. I don't see the logic in that.
I think it is a question of fairness. Should students who show up 20-40 minutes late on a regular basisandforce me to stop the discussion to get them up to speed get extra privileges because they paid for it? If the potentially lazy students who have been coming on time see the late comers getting away with it, maybe more students will come late. Is it fair that the class has to come to a halt every time someone comes in late?
* Because of the nature of the class everyone depends on the hard work and contributions of the other students to make the class a success because the class is not lecture but group projects, role playing, case studies and discussion.
Short answer: No
Long Answer: Absolutely. positively no.
If lateness is that big a problem, you have to set it up that it isn't a problem. Start out with a 15 minute quiz or a 15 minute mini-project that is graded but not part of the larger group projects. Try to set up activities that require the other students to update their team mates and get them up to speed and not you (the instructor). Or maybe allow the late comers to read your notes, case studies or explanation on what to do that day.
Consider the late comers as bullies that are trying to manipulate you and their classmates.
Remember that bullies are not allowed in school (even in community colleges).
Last edited by germaine2626; 06-08-2013 at 09:20 PM..
I was amazed at the lack of discipline, respect, and general adult responsibility regarding many of the kids in college. I was used to high school, where such monkey business was not tolerated.
Similar to the regular army vs. the reserves. I went reserve after active duty. I could not believe what a bunch of slackers the reservists were.
That was long ago. Given the multi-activations of USAR and NG units these days, I'd hope the professionalism level is a bit higher than in The Good Old Days.
This is a professor issue. All the following suggestions are IMO excellent:
Quote:
Originally Posted by DFWgal
5-10 min quizzes at the beginning of each class or the possibility of quizzes solved this problem for my college instructors/professors. They were usually 10% of our grade.
20%, anyone?
Quote:
Originally Posted by Rubi3
At university, a professor gave me permission to leave a few minutes early so as to walk a long distance to a lab. He still always included a question from those minutes on tests.
So far as taking up class time to fill latecomers in on what they missed... it wouldn't happen if I were the teacher. They can get the information from another student.
Indeed. College is their job.
Quote:
Originally Posted by SXMGirl
Take attendance 5 minutes after class starts and then give a short quiz. I had a law professor many years ago who only took attendance sporadically, but if he called your name and you weren't there, he said that as far as he was concerned, you did not attend any of his classes. Everyone showed up.
While law school is a different proposition regarding motivation, this looks like an effective solution.
Grad school was an absolutely different matter than undergrad, where half the kids were riding the parent train or athletic scholarships. Jocks were some of the worst regarding lack of adult behavior.
Most of my fellow students in grad school were in the 35-55 y.o. range. We WANTED to be there and had a life plan. It was our chance for a new life, doing what we wanted.
HUGE difference in motivation and how seriously the students take their responsibilities.
Quote:
Originally Posted by Sally_Sparrow
My thoughts exactly, couldn't rep you again, but yeah, the instructor is in control here, or should be. There is no way they can force you to stop and fill them in, I would ignore them when they enter late, and if they were to walk in and ask what is going on I'd politely respond that they will need to get with a classmate after class to find out what's happening.
THEIR responsibility. They're supposed to learn that in college, if they haven't yet.
Too many kids grow up spoiled by incompetent parents. They expect it all, think they're speshul, and plan on taking a first job at 350 grand as executive VP.
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