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Just because a college doesn't educate using the pedagogical method you reference, doesn't mean it's not a college education. That's perhaps the only thing I think you consistently reference that is...well, low and unseemly.
If you want to be a child about, be one-but bottom line, not everyone gets to go to the caliber of university you reference (when you talk about CMU and G. Tech as examples of a standard college education, I know you live in a different world than I do), or gets to do the type of things you think are the only true college education, and guess what?
It's still a college education and still worth getting and still expands the mind of the recipient. Calling it anything else than a college education is snobbish, rude, and prissy, at best. There are other words that describe it, but those are the most polite way to put your attitude.
Look, argue the point all you like, but the post above is a personal attack, no ifs, ands, or buts, about it.
If you feel the need to attack the person, you have already lost the debate btw.
And for the record, big schools like Rutgers typically offer the same kind of discourse NJBest is talking about, so it is clearly not reserved for "elite" schools by any means.
Look, argue the point all you like, but the post above is a personal attack, no ifs, ands, or buts, about it.
If you feel the need to attack the person, you have already lost the debate btw.
And for the record, big schools like Rutgers typically offer the same kind of discourse NJBest is talking about, so it is clearly not reserved for "elite" schools by any means.
If it came across as an attack on the person, it was not intended. My apologies. It was intended as an attack on the viewpoint.
I disagree at a very fundamental level with the implication that a university which does not operate the way NJBest thinks it should operate is not providing a college education, and I think the word prissy in one of its definitions is completely accurate here (excessively particular, in this case about what manner a college must provide their education to be 'real'). That implies my earned degrees, from the best colleges I could get into and afford, and the degrees of every student who went to those locations who did not get the hand-holding that NJBest got in his undergraduate, are not a college education.
Sometimes I wonder about the teachers in the work/study programs. A group I was working with was given the assignment to make a budget. Wonderful! says I. They figured out their personal budget. Brought it to me for a final check. When I pointed out the problem, the response was...."Oh, she told us not to worry about taxes or Social Security withholding." I wonder how many high schoolers use this kind of logic in deciding on where they can afford to go.
No doubt most. I assume if she didn't bother with taxes, then she also didn't consider mandatory deductions that many jobs have, like health insurance (which high schoolers don't need YET but will), retirement, disability and life insurance, etc. At my last job I had mandatory contributions to all that stuff and it was pretty significant.
Uh, it is important to get the facts straight. MIT does not even have an undergraduate program for oceanography. They have one of the best (not the best, that would be Scripps) graduate programs (in conjunction with WHOI) but the closest they have as an undergrad is a BS in earth science.
Oh, and tuition to attend Mason Gross (the arts school) and School of Environmental and Biological Sciences is not, in fact, the same.
Now what you are completely ignoring with your "point", is the actual value of the education is strongly tied to your goals. Swarthmore would be beyond useless to a student with aspirations to becoming something they do not offer a degree in, thus major absolutely matters.
The last paragraph is irrelevant to my point regarding making generalities regarding cost between state schools and small LACs.
Originally, I was trying to agree with you, but you seem h@ll bent on creating an argument.
Let's just say most 17 year olds are not like your extremely mature and focused kid and have no clue what they want to do. Or maybe they have an idea but aren't sure. Schools like Harvard, and Swarthmore, and Rutgers, and smaller LAC have a different market value. And the price that a particular student pays for those schools will reflect that.
It's like that where I live also but you can rent a nice 2BR in a nice area for around $1500. With a room mate that is $750 each. It won't be a fancy place but there won't be any gangs and you can save $250 per month.
I just looked on realtor.c o m.....in his zip code the cheapest rent was $800 a month FOR A BOAT SLIP.....
Cheapest apartment was $1065 (no pets), next was 1150, 1165....so 1300 is the going rate but I have seen a pic, the place is a dump!
I have 12 grandchildren and the youngest is 22 years old. All but three of them have managed to get through career training without debt. Some of them did not finish college or university degrees, and surprisingly they are the ones who are doing the best. One of them is a full-time wedding photographer who finally left her full-time insurance job as she was making so much on weddings that she needed the extra time to focus on her wedding business. Another had some health problems and had to drop out of school. She went to work in a bank (business major) and is now a branch manager for a major banking company. Another did two years in a community college studying computer programming, and is now making more money than his wife who is an analyst for a major oil company. Others got scholarships (academic and not need) and are doing well. The only ones who seem to have debt are the three children of my yuppie child. I don't even want to know what they owe. Two of them did intern work and junior years in Europe.
I was really fortunate in that I had a couple of academic scholarships and took Christmas vacation and summer jobs (can you imagine working in a cannery 12 hours a day/7 days a week?) and was able to pay my way and not have any debt. I just can't imagine how frustrating it is to have this mountain of debt when one approaches adulthood. I don't believe in debt.
BTW, I just was refused a credit card because I don't have a big debt history -- house paid for, credit cards paid off monthly, etc. And my credit score is 944. Did I laugh!!! I make sure that each month pays for itself. Maybe that is why I was successful in business and retired at 59.
I just can't figure out what is going on with the parents of these students that they don't counsel them to work hard and not borrow money. Fortunately for me, I am so old that student loans did not come into existence until I was in my second semester of my junior year. I am also grateful to my father that he refused to fill out financial forms for scholarships and insisted that any scholarships I received were earned by grades and activities. That may sound crazy but it really made me accountable and responsible for my high school 3.99 (at that time we took advanced placement courses but were on a 4 point scale which now has become a 5 point scale for AP classes).
Of our four children, only one finished university studies, but all four of them are in excellent, well-paying careers. In fact the one with the university degree is the one with the worst work record and frequent job changes.
I guess it is all relative. Parents have to make a big impact on children about educational choices. My manicurist's daughter is Pre-med at Cal and is doing great. Her mother is a Vietnamese refugee who has taught her children about opportunities and living with an excellent work ethic.
BTW, I just was refused a credit card because I don't have a big debt history -- house paid for, credit cards paid off monthly, etc. And my credit score is 944. Did I laugh!!! I make sure that each month pays for itself. Maybe that is why I was successful in business and retired at 59.
You don't have a FICO credit score of 944. You probably have a FAKO credit score of 944... no one takes FAKO seriously.
If you don't have a good credit report, it's hard to get credit. There's nothing to laugh about.
Location: where you sip the tea of the breasts of the spinsters of Utica
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Originally Posted by :-D
Am I wrong? You have to excuse me if I am. I thought Penn had lower tuition rates for their in-state students.
Penn State is a public university, while the University of Pennsylvania is a private Ivy League school.
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