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No degree is worth the debt is true. I am saying what everyone else is afraid to say or admit and that is that higher education is a scam. For 95% of the degrees out there you are throwing money down the drain when you could just simply be hired and learn the same skills on the job. College is forced into peoples minds at a very young age, and shame on you if you don't go to college because you will be flipping burgers the rest of your life.
Being a teacher do you tell your students the good and bad? Do you mention how lenders use predatory lending, there is no statue of limitations, lenders make more money off of you if you default, how tuition has risen dramatically, and so on?
Some jobs you have to go to college for like I do not know nursing one needs to get your BSN or hospitals will nor even look at your application. Sure you still get a job with a two year degree but they make you get your 4 year and you have to get it in 5 years of being hired.
No degree is worth the debt is true. I am saying what everyone else is afraid to say or admit and that is that higher education is a scam. For 95% of the degrees out there you are throwing money down the drain when you could just simply be hired and learn the same skills on the job. College is forced into peoples minds at a very young age, and shame on you if you don't go to college because you will be flipping burgers the rest of your life.
Being a teacher do you tell your students the good and bad? Do you mention how lenders use predatory lending, there is no statue of limitations, lenders make more money off of you if you default, how tuition has risen dramatically, and so on?
Ninety five percent?
People who make up statistics to support their ridiculous opinions have ZERO credibility.
You cannot be an engineer, doctor, researcher, and so on without a degree. Considering the vast majority of my students go on to STEM careers, of course they are told they need a degree, because they do NEED a degree,
Stop pretending your ill informed opinion is a fact. It is not.
Agreed. I mean, he could have had it much lower (by about half) if he went to Arizona for his undergrad. But having Penn on his degree probably made it easier for him to get into medical school. He had a 4.0 GPA on top of that. A 4.0 from Arizona does not look as good as a 4.0 from Penn, no doubt about it.
I think if a student is pursuing medical, law, or a PhD then they should go to the best ranking school they can go to. If someone is pursuing a degree just to get a job (and usually don't want to go to school past the bachelor's), then this shouldn't matter and they should choose what they could afford. Going to the better ranking (and usually more expensive) colleges will greatly affect what law schools will accept you, what medical schools, and what PhD programs.
You cannot put medical or dental school in the same bucket of advice. State schools heavily subsidize medical and dental colleges. In some cases, as much as $200K of subsidies over 4 years. If you leave the state for undergrad, in many programs, that will work against you. They can imagine that if you leave the state once, then you might leave it again.
Private medical schools are different and your advice is solid. But you better be in the top of the top students. If not, statistically you are better to stay put in many cases. UofMN for instance (#16 ranked) draws a lot of their students from the UofMN. That "good" MN student is going to be at an advantage over the guy who got the same MCAT score at a "better" UG college.
You cannot put medical or dental school in the same bucket of advice. State schools heavily subsidize medical and dental colleges. In some cases, as much as $200K of subsidies over 4 years. If you leave the state for undergrad, in many programs, that will work against you. They can imagine that if you leave the state once, then you might leave it again.
Private medical schools are different and your advice is solid. But you better be in the top of the top students. If not, statistically you are better to stay put in many cases. UofMN for instance (#16 ranked) draws a lot of their students from the UofMN. That "good" MN student is going to be at an advantage over the guy who got the same MCAT score at a "better" UG college.
He got it backwards. Those who are intent on attending grad school should be saving money for their terminal degrees. Taking advantage of your resources at a good enough" school like a large state research university will get you into a top institution if you have the grades/test scores to match. Does a prestigious undergrad look better, all things being equal? Sure. But all things are rarely equal, and a 3.9/170 non-minority candidate from Penn State is going to end up at a much better law school than a 3.6/165 non-minority candidate from UPenn 11 times out of 10. The diverse alma mater roster of my Ivy League law school attests to this.
tl;dr: those with post-bachelor's educational plans should ration their money wisely. Grad school loans are a b*tch. That's not to say the cheapest school is always the best option, but rather, striking a balance between cost and educational quality is paramount.
Last edited by ElijahAstin; 03-09-2014 at 06:15 PM..
It cost me $30k over 4 years for my accounting degree and I was able to graduate with no debt by working my way through school. Got a nice job to boot. I'm sorry, but I don't get people who come out of college with crushing debt. When I think of someone graduating with $100k in debt, the person I have in mind is the art or theater type living in lala land who goes to the expensive, private "art school" for an ego trip. Then after graduating and reality hits that you are only qualified to work at McDonald's while trying to service a mountain of debt, the tears start running. I have no sympathy.
That level of debt is pretty normal for anyone that went to a private university without their parents paying for it. Also, it's almost impossible to work your way through school while pulling A's with certain majors. Accounting is right up there with business or marketing as far as difficulty of courses. It's also a degree that doesn't require getting into grad school in order to land a real job, which means you never had the constant pressure of being at the top of your class, like a science or arts major does. Spin it any way you want, but accounting is an easy degree with little competition because it will land you the most awful job on earth. You might make some decent money, but you'll hate your life. That's why nobody wants to major in accounting. Enjoy driving that BMW to your 60 hour a week job that you hate LOL
That level of debt is pretty normal for anyone that went to a private university without their parents paying for it. Also, it's almost impossible to work your way through school while pulling A's with certain majors. Accounting is right up there with business or marketing as far as difficulty of courses. It's also a degree that doesn't require getting into grad school in order to land a real job, which means you never had the constant pressure of being at the top of your class, like a science or arts major does. Spin it any way you want, but accounting is an easy degree with little competition because it will land you the most awful job on earth. You might make some decent money, but you'll hate your life. That's why nobody wants to major in accounting. Enjoy driving that BMW to your 60 hour a week job that you hate LOL
Jokes on you sucka
I'm an accountant and I like my job. There are people like me who like numbers. I didn't major in Accounting as an undergrad but I have an MBA.
You cannot put medical or dental school in the same bucket of advice. State schools heavily subsidize medical and dental colleges. In some cases, as much as $200K of subsidies over 4 years. If you leave the state for undergrad, in many programs, that will work against you. They can imagine that if you leave the state once, then you might leave it again.
Private medical schools are different and your advice is solid. But you better be in the top of the top students. If not, statistically you are better to stay put in many cases. UofMN for instance (#16 ranked) draws a lot of their students from the UofMN. That "good" MN student is going to be at an advantage over the guy who got the same MCAT score at a "better" UG college.
Do you have something to back that up? Working in health care, I know a lot of people going to med school, planning to go to med school, doing "premed", etc, and I never heard that, not even from the doctors I work with. In point of fact, it seems most med school graduates go "somewhere else" for residency. Even the dr. in our office who went to CU for both undergrad and med school did her residency in Ohio. Lots of students go to small liberal arts colleges for undergrad with plans to get into med school.
Do you have something to back that up? Working in health care, I know a lot of people going to med school, planning to go to med school, doing "premed", etc, and I never heard that, not even from the doctors I work with. In point of fact, it seems most med school graduates go "somewhere else" for residency. Even the dr. in our office who went to CU for both undergrad and med school did her residency in Ohio. Lots of students go to small liberal arts colleges for undergrad with plans to get into med school.
And while it's certainly not the only factor considered (med schools are more holistic than other professional schools--law skool at least), DAT MCAT is key.
Med school prestige, while certainly not of zero value, is far less important than in other professions (prestige-whoring legal employers especially). The flip-side is that it's leaps and bounds harder to simply get into an accredited MD program, though I prefer that model to the one that allows naive students with dismal career prospects to take on hundreds of thousands of dollars in debt.
And while it's certainly not the only factor considered (med schools are more holistic than other professional schools--law skool at least), DAT MCAT is key.
Med school prestige, while certainly not of zero value, is far less important than in other professions (prestige-whoring legal employers especially). The flip-side is that it's leaps and bounds harder to simply get into an accredited MD program, though I prefer that model to the one that allows naive students with dismal career prospects to take on hundreds of thousands of dollars in debt.
I don't see any aggregated average here. In any event, the acceptance rates for the "typical" 27-29/3.40-3.59 is a little over 1/3 for whites and under 30% for Asians, which is rather low when you're talking about the acceptance rate to any program (and people often apply to a dozen-plus). And that graph just accounts for the people who ended up applying. When you consider that the average MCAT score in a given administration is 25, lots of people give up and move onto something else. If you have a pulse, you can find a law, business, etc. school that will take you. I stand by my assertion that medical/dental/vet school has a significantly more arduous admissions process as a whole.
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LOL 
