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Do you have something to back that up? Working in health care, I know a lot of people going to med school, planning to go to med school, doing "premed", etc, and I never heard that, not even from the doctors I work with. In point of fact, it seems most med school graduates go "somewhere else" for residency. Even the dr. in our office who went to CU for both undergrad and med school did her residency in Ohio. Lots of students go to small liberal arts colleges for undergrad with plans to get into med school.
This is very much a school specific statement. Look at the out of state student admissions percentages of any given state school. Some are heavily biased towards instate students. I'm more familiar with the dental programs (DD is in dental). While we were in MN, she more or less would have wasted her time to apply to UofIowa. From memory, something like 98% of the students were from Iowa schools. Cut, paste, and repeat this same situation at other parts of the country.
Before we selected an UG program for my DD, I talked with the UofMN dental school and asked them if they had a policy of taking mostly instate. In conclusion she said "we need MN dentists". I then asked for a histogram of what undergrad schools were accepted to their program (1100 applications; 95 seats). Here is her email (I have 20,000 emails in Outlook for reference in my line of work). A quick search brings up this email:
________________________________________
From: madde084@umn.edu [mailto:madde084@umn.edu]
Sent: Wednesday, April 15, 2009 2:41 PM
To: xxxxx@xxxx.com
Subject: List of Colleges
Here is the list of colleges where the incoming DDS students received their degrees. Let me know if you have any more questions.
UM-TC: 22
St. Thomas: 8
UND: 7
St. Olaf: 7
UW-Madison: 6
UM-Duluth: 5
Luther College: 3
Concordia: 3
Bethel: 3
St. Cloud St. Univ: 3
SDSU: 3
NDSU: 3
St. Johns: 3
Gustavus: 3
Northwestern: 2
Winona St: 2
Montana St Univ
St. Scholastica
UW-River Falls
UW-LaCrosse
UW-Milwaukee
UM-Morris
Arizona St Univ
Hamline
Marquette
DePauw
Colorado St Univ
Mount Holyoke College
Bemidji St Univ
Univ of Detroit-Mercy
Univ of Ottawa
Creighton Univ
Univ of South Dakota
Univ of Manitoba
BYU
__________________________________________________ ____________
In MN's case, it was MUCH more regional to students that left the state than my Iowa example. But I was told a heavy percentage were from MN (MN kids).
The above college list ^^ was who they gave interviews to.
ALSO, here is another important fact that many students don't understand. Do you see any students admitted from Mankato State or Bemidji State? Her scvhools that were listed with zero were who they have interviews to. Many of the MN state colleges didn't give them even an interview! All of these State colleges have "dental clubs". Yet the UofMN doesn't see them as good enough. Maybe that is wrong but that is admissions bias. Know your schools UG biases before you go to just any UG program.
Notice that about 25% of all dental students accepted were from the main UofMN campus? They are biased. Now if you get a 30 on your DAT, go to a CC and Mankato state, you will still get in. But we played the odds. Hence we punted on a very nice scholarship for my DD at MN State (Mankato).
My son is going the med school path (he is at one of the big 3 Service Academies). I've just started to research if this bias exists in med school and I am finding the same trend. But that in state trend is broken (advantages given to Academy grads) for flag waving reasons as well as med schools wanting a diverse background.
But there are a whole lot more doctor students than dental students. So expect to know more out of state doctors that buck the trend that I am speaking about. Again... School specific. The UMD (University of MN Duluth) likes outstate Doc's. They are going to be biased towards small town MN HS students that stayed in MN for their UG. That's a fact. But again, not all colleges use this philosophy. Simply look at the admission numbers to figure out the trends.
Last edited by MN-Born-n-Raised; 03-11-2014 at 06:58 AM..
Perhaps the solution, as a way of managing costs under the Obama healthcare plan, is to phase into a program wherein potential MD's qualify purely on the basis of academic merit, their educations are paid for, and in exchange, they work for the public hospitals for a period of years at a quite modest salary, to "repay" to the community, the cost of educating them. It is done in other countries. It means less doctors, it means less kids have a chance at the dream, but it also manages costs.
Re: Vet schools admission percentages. I could not easily locate those statistics. I suspect that is because there are three different tests that schools use for admissions (not standardized).
I don't see any aggregated average here. In any event, the acceptance rates for the "typical" 27-29/3.40-3.59 is a little over 1/3 for whites and under 30% for Asians, which is rather low when you're talking about the acceptance rate to any program (and people often apply to a dozen-plus). And that graph just accounts for the people who ended up applying. When you consider that the average MCAT score in a given administration is 25, lots of people give up and move onto something else. If you have a pulse, you can find a law, business, etc. school that will take you. I stand by my assertion that medical/dental/vet school has a significantly more arduous admissions process as a whole.
Well..you have to do some math, add up the numbers and average....
People who make up statistics to support their ridiculous opinions have ZERO credibility.
You cannot be an engineer, doctor, researcher, and so on without a degree. Considering the vast majority of my students go on to STEM careers, of course they are told they need a degree, because they do NEED a degree,
Stop pretending your ill informed opinion is a fact. It is not.
That's why I said 95%. There are 95% of jobs out there which you can learn on the job, degree not needed. I never said it was a statistic it's simply an opinion, stop being so quick to jump the gun.
I guess you ignoring my comment about talking to your students, you only mention the pros to student debt and college.
My message to young people offline is the same as what I've been writing online.
Start with career research. Know your likes, skills, and then look at the jobs that possibly fit. Look at ads. Research salaries. A job that might pay around 22K entry level with little chance of advancement *is not* worth taking on 100K worth of debt.
Likewise, I agree that college is not necessary in all cases. And sometimes, just taking a few selected classes might be what's needed. Too many young people are afraid to ask employers directly what they want in terms of skills/education/experience, and they should. The answers can be surprising.
It's also not the end of the world to do something like get certified in enough software and office procedure to become an office assistant or nurse aide (or similar work in the area that has entry-level positions. Bank teller is another one). These jobs will pay some bills! At a later time when the young person has a much better idea of what he or she wants to do and has the maturity to follow through, then taking on a reasonable amount of student loan debt might be acceptable if all other funding options (such as employer tuition refunds) have been explored. In the meantime, office work pays somewhat better than cooking hamburgers.
There are no longer the $36 credit hours as there were when I started college, so "finding one's self" in college is dumb, unless someone has deep pockets to fund that sort of project. Even the "rich" people I know don't care to do that for their children.
And given the number of un and under-employed lawyers, dentists, and doctors I've been running into lately, I can't justify 100K+ debts for their educations, either. There are a lot of truly broke professionals running around.
Well..you have to do some math, add up the numbers and average....
That doesn't negate my point though. Considering solely the fact that the average MCAT score is 25-26, preventing most people from even applying in the first place (at least applying with a snowball's chance in hell of being accepted), the med school application process is a very difficult one.
That doesn't negate my point though. Considering solely the fact that the average MCAT score is 25-26, preventing most people from even applying in the first place (at least applying with a snowball's chance in hell of being accepted), the med school application process is a very difficult one.
Yes....and why would it be otherwise??? Being a doctor is not easy. Would you want someone that got a 10 on the MCAT treating you??
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Hence we punted on a very nice scholarship for my DD at MN State (Mankato). 
