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It really depends on your state. Our state schools are expensive compared to surrounding states and compared to pretty much every private school for a reasonably good student. For a B- or lower student with a 24 or worse ACT, yes, state schools are probably going to be the way to go.
Ivy's have changed how they do their funding (as have some other schools), it's income based so if you make $75,000 or less, AGI, those schools are free, yes free. Between 75K-180K it's a sliding scale based on your AGI (10%) so someone making 180K (well their parents), they are paying $18,000/year with NO loans at most of the Ivys...our state schools cost more than that....
As we have discussed before, our family friends and DD friends have attended St. Thomas, St, Ben's, St. Olaf, St. Scholastica, and just about every other worthy MN private college. So I'm saying B+ to A- 26-30 ACT students are paying more at MN privates.
Because I love the topic, I prodded to see what financial packages they received. Most of them bragged how they paid about the same as the UofMN (making it sound like they got a superior education as compared to the UofMN). Those who paid less got hardship financial aid (FAFSA) or in one case, a full ride because she was brilliant. A close family friend who was ranked #1 in HS out of 600 (33 or 34 ACT; I forget) paid $27K a year with books, tuition and R&B at St. Olaf (Biology Major and now a Vet attending the UofMN). We do have some close personal friends who's daughter went to St. Ben's. She is an A- student and paid a grand total of $11K a year. But she got some big scholarships because she is female and a math major. She is at her PHD program at the UofMN right now for infectious disease (she is a nurse) and no B- student yet still paid a lot of UG. My DD's 2nd best friend (B+ student) paid $25K a year total at St. Ben's. She is working at Medtronic now (biology major).
I suspect I know at least 40 personal examples. Other than the brilliant student who paid $0 at St. Thomas (a college tutor like my son at age 16-18 tutoring Chem and Calc with a 35 on her ACT) and she got a free ride.
I'm not saying your daughter didn't pay close to zero. But I'm saying you guys found the golden ticket or the golden college. 40 personal examples tell me that non-FAFSA aided students pay slightly more than the full boat UofMN flagship rates. But B+ to A- UofMN (higher ACT students) get about $2K-$5K per year off their $18K full retail tuition rates (a whole lot less even 6 years ago but adjusted for increases). The top of the top students pay zero tuition and their other scholarships kick in for room and board. My DS was in that category. There is no way I would not have found several example of what you are talking about in our circle of friends who are nearly all great students. Your personal example is a statistical outlier. Other's are paying much much more.
To your Ivy example paying less. Again, there is one and only one way, FAFSA and or income based aid.
Note: when I quote $$'s, I'm talking about adding economical room and board, books, food and tuition. I'm not adding in car insurance, medical insurance, etc. So I am comparing apples to apples and not looking at some college website's cost to attend the UofMN.
Last edited by MN-Born-n-Raised; 03-17-2014 at 07:26 AM..
Well, in our experience a lot of the kids that go out of state do so because they did get good merit aid, etc. Not sure how much looking he did out of state but had he started at a private school, depending on his grades and test scores, it's likely he would have come out way better off vs going the CC route that he did. Just one example, if he had a 3.6 or better and a 28+ on his ACT, he would have netted out at about $5000/year at our son's school. They actually give a pretty nice scholarship for athletic training majors...which works into the PT programs if they choose to go that route-or a PA program. That would have been living on campus too...transferring into that same school his best package would leave him with about $15,000/year. Can you honestly say that his CC plus living/commuting expenses were under $5000/year...not likely.
Too many people automatically assume the CC route is cheaper, but it's usually not. The other issue is will he get INTO the program he wants? Often those programs are very competitive at the UG level even and they generally require some pre-req work in their department to get accepted. He may end up doing an extra year at the university because of that.
Your right, He wanted to attend FAU and out of state it was 33k a year as we didnt have residency there anymore since we had moved..He applied to UNCC where we lived in Charlotte got in but we moved and well he isnt dorming there..He also wanted to stay home and didnt want to go away to college as that was his choice..but he has friends that went out of state to school and no they did not have financial help from the school and for that I think its foolish to spend out of state tution and take out loans for that kind of money but that is Just my opinion...My daughter has 4 years left until college she wants to go into PA Peds or OT Peds with special needs children, she also wants to go away..lol
he might wind up at a University an extra year, lol I don't know many college kids who are finishing in 4 years sad but true and I think there are so many variables...He has most of his pre-req's and only needs Chemestry to complete his pre-req's he has been taking 13 credits a semester..He applied to Georgian Court University which is Private and can get a reward of 10k a year off of the tution, its one of the least epensive private colleges in NJ..He is applying now to Stockton College so we will see what happens..you need a 3.0 for their Exersise Science Program his GPA is a 3.2, .He did his pre-req's that he needed at the CC level he went because we wound up moving back home at the end of his 1st semester of CC so he wanted to finish his freshman year here in the CC..He interned for 3 months with a PT back in NC, and he will be interning through this school if he chooses to attend..My concern is PT school so he knows that he has intern and interview and have a high GPA, we will see but he is determined to get through it..He is also getting Certified as a Personal Trainer so he can do that on the side...He was a competitive swimmer for 4 years in High School and has wanted to work in eithr PT or PA Since he was 14...
Last edited by Swimmom32; 03-17-2014 at 09:34 AM..
Your right, He wanted to attend FAU and out of state it was 33k a year as we didnt have residency there anymore since we had moved..He applied to UNCC where we lived in Charlotte got in but we moved and well he isnt dorming there..He also wanted to stay home and didnt want to go away to college as that was his choice..but he has friends that went out of state to school and no they did not have financial help from the school and for that I think its foolish to spend out of state tution and take out loans for that kind of money but that is Just my opinion...My daughter has 4 years left until college she wants to go into PA Peds or OT Peds with special needs children, she also wants to go away..lol
he might wind up at a University an extra year, lol I don't know many college kids who are finishing in 4 years sad but true and I think there are so many variables...He has most of his pre-req's and only needs Chemestry to complete his pre-req's he has been taking 13 credits a semester..He applied to Georgian Court University which is Private and can get a reward of 10k a year off of the tution, its one of the least epensive private colleges in NJ..He is applying now to Stockton College so we will see what happens..you need a 3.0 for their Exersise Science Program his GPA is a 3.2, .He did his pre-req's that he needed at the CC level he went because we wound up moving back home at the end of his 1st semester of CC so he wanted to finish his freshman year here in the CC..He interned for 3 months with a PT back in NC, and he will be interning through this school if he chooses to attend..My concern is PT school so he knows that he has intern and interview and have a high GPA, we will see but he is determined to get through it..He is also getting Certified as a Personal Trainer so he can do that on the side...He was a competitive swimmer for 4 years in High School and has wanted to work in eithr PT or PA Since he was 14...
As we have discussed before, our family friends and DD friends have attended St. Thomas, St, Ben's, St. Olaf, St. Scholastica, and just about every other worthy MN private college. So I'm saying B+ to A- 26-30 ACT students are paying more at MN privates.
Because I love the topic, I prodded to see what financial packages they received. Most of them bragged how they paid about the same as the UofMN (making it sound like they got a superior education as compared to the UofMN). Those who paid less got hardship financial aid (FAFSA) or in one case, a full ride because she was brilliant. A close family friend who was ranked #1 in HS out of 600 (33 or 34 ACT; I forget) paid $27K a year with books, tuition and R&B at St. Olaf (Biology Major and now a Vet attending the UofMN). We do have some close personal friends who's daughter went to St. Ben's. She is an A- student and paid a grand total of $11K a year. But she got some big scholarships because she is female and a math major. She is at her PHD program at the UofMN right now for infectious disease (she is a nurse) and no B- student yet still paid a lot of UG. My DD's 2nd best friend (B+ student) paid $25K a year total at St. Ben's. She is working at Medtronic now (biology major).
I suspect I know at least 40 personal examples. Other than the brilliant student who paid $0 at St. Thomas (a college tutor like my son at age 16-18 tutoring Chem and Calc with a 35 on her ACT) and she got a free ride.
I'm not saying your daughter didn't pay close to zero. But I'm saying you guys found the golden ticket or the golden college. 40 personal examples tell me that non-FAFSA aided students pay slightly more than the full boat UofMN flagship rates. But B+ to A- UofMN (higher ACT students) get about $2K-$5K per year off their $18K full retail tuition rates (a whole lot less even 6 years ago but adjusted for increases). The top of the top students pay zero tuition and their other scholarships kick in for room and board. My DS was in that category. There is no way I would not have found several example of what you are talking about in our circle of friends who are nearly all great students. Your personal example is a statistical outlier. Other's are paying much much more.
To your Ivy example paying less. Again, there is one and only one way, FAFSA and or income based aid.
Note: when I quote $$'s, I'm talking about adding economical room and board, books, food and tuition. I'm not adding in car insurance, medical insurance, etc. So I am comparing apples to apples and not looking at some college website's cost to attend the UofMN.
Have you actually priced out the state schools lately??? You pretty much proved my point....St. Olaf and St. Thomas are not known for their generous merit aid...good financial aid though. COA at the U of MN is about $27,000 right now....
Please tell me how a math major at St. Ben's became a nurse???
We did not find a golden ticket, we did so some searching and yes, they did get some nice extra scholarships, but even St. Ben's was less than the state schools (U of MN especially)....heck WI, ND, SD, IA state schools are less for MN kids than MN state schools....I can give you a lot more than 40 examples from full rides at the U of MN to paying nothing at Harvard and everything in between. I know plenty of average kids in other parts of the country pay full freight too, but there are plenty of schools out there that do come in at very low costs or lower than state schools and to automatically discount private schools because of the initial price tag often means paying more...just because that was not YOUR experience doesn't mean it doesn't happen.
U of MN itself reports for 13 credit hours, $25,544 for '13-'14 attendance--that doesn't include any lab fees, etc. and only gives $1000 for books and $195 inclusion for travel. Tuition alone is almost $14,000
As for my Ivy example, I very clearly outlined how that happens....
Well, in our experience a lot of the kids that go out of state do so because they did get good merit aid, etc. Not sure how much looking he did out of state but had he started at a private school, depending on his grades and test scores, it's likely he would have come out way better off vs going the CC route that he did. Just one example, if he had a 3.6 or better and a 28+ on his ACT, he would have netted out at about $5000/year at our son's school. They actually give a pretty nice scholarship for athletic training majors...which works into the PT programs if they choose to go that route-or a PA program. That would have been living on campus too...transferring into that same school his best package would leave him with about $15,000/year. Can you honestly say that his CC plus living/commuting expenses were under $5000/year...not likely.
Too many people automatically assume the CC route is cheaper, but it's usually not. The other issue is will he get INTO the program he wants? Often those programs are very competitive at the UG level even and they generally require some pre-req work in their department to get accepted. He may end up doing an extra year at the university because of that.
There are no undergrad levels of PT (physical therapy) or PA (Physician's Assistant). These are graduate programs. An athletic training degree will not fulfil the requirements for PT school. See below: Curriculum | Athletic Training | Hofstra University
Do note some courses CAN be taken at a CC. In fact, only anat and phys, and upper division science elective courses can NOT be taken at a CC.
To Swimmom2, both PT programs and PA programs are very competitive. PA programs in particular have way more applicants than slots available, and many students far exceed the minimum requirements.
I still want the names of private schools that come out to be less than $5k/year for a good but not incredible (ie 3.7 GPA, 28 ACT) student. It's my question whenever this topic comes up...
Have you actually priced out the state schools lately??? You pretty much proved my point....St. Olaf and St. Thomas are not known for their generous merit aid...good financial aid though. COA at the U of MN is about $27,000 right now....
Comprehensive Fee:
Tuition: $40,700
Room and board: $9,260
Total Billed Costs: $49,960
Estimated (Indirect) Expenses:
Books: $1,000
Personal Expenses: $900
Overall Cost of Attendance: $51,860
The R&B will be about the same at the UofMN as well as books. You said the tuition at the UofMN was $14k. From Undergraduate tuition it looks to be around $12K for UG at 13 credits. Let's round it up to $14K.
Hence, that St. Olaf student has to come up with $40,700 (St. Olaf tuition) - $14K (UofMN tuition) or ABOUT $27,000 in aid to be equal. Now if the student is smart, take of a few more Grand on the UofMN tuition. My DD got off $3K (presidential) and a couple more grand for an mining grant (a nice surprise). So in order to be a tie, the St. Olaf student now needs to get about $30,000+ in aid.
Now I realize they have some great Alumina at good-ole St. Olaf so their endowments are decent. But they cannot afford to be handing out that kind of aid to seemingly everyone you know. Hence, I do not see the same results as you. None of the smart MN kids I know went to Golden Egg University and paid $2K like yours did. To me at least, the math doesn't make a bit of sense other than exceptions to the rule. Zero, nada.
Re: WI kids paying slightly less in MN. Yep. But the surrounding Flagships are darn close to the UofMN tuition. Books all cost about the same anywhere. Same with meals. NOw R&B can differ but mybe by a couple of Grand. Hence, I just add up R&B, books, fees, meals and tuition to get my total. Better yet to do a benchmark, just stare at tuition when comparing two MN colleges and adjust slightly for R&B. Simple.
Quote:
Originally Posted by golfgal
Please tell me how a math major at St. Ben's became a nurse???
Like many students, you get a scholarships and you later change your major. I don't know if she was required to still take a certain amount of math classes to keep the $$'s flowing or not. If you want me to check, I can. Maybe she switched to public health and I am getting her kids confused. I remember numbers fairly well and a nice chuck of change was because she was female and declared math as a major. I was impressed as they paid $11K a year all in at St. Ben's. That was one of the 1st people I met that paid that low of $$'s.
Last edited by MN-Born-n-Raised; 03-17-2014 at 02:41 PM..
I still want the names of private schools that come out to be less than $5k/year for a good but not incredible (ie 3.7 GPA, 28 ACT) student. It's my question whenever this topic comes up...
There are no undergrad levels of PT (physical therapy) or PA (Physician's Assistant). These are graduate programs. An athletic training degree will not fulfil the requirements for PT school. See below: Curriculum | Athletic Training | Hofstra University
Do note some courses CAN be taken at a CC. In fact, only anat and phys, and upper division science elective courses can NOT be taken at a CC.
To Swimmom2, both PT programs and PA programs are very competitive. PA programs in particular have way more applicants than slots available, and many students far exceed the minimum requirements.
Is Pittsburgh a low COL area? That's nice to know for future reference. Our daughter talked about doing her Dental school in PA, if she can.
It seems to be low compared to Fort Lauderdale.
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Those who paid less got hardship financial aid (FAFSA) or in one case, a full ride because she was brilliant. A close family friend who was ranked #1 in HS out of 600 (33 or 34 ACT; I forget) paid $27K a year with books, tuition and R&B at St. Olaf (Biology Major and now a Vet attending the UofMN). We do have some close personal friends who's daughter went to St. Ben's. She is an A- student and paid a grand total of $11K a year. But she got some big scholarships because she is female and a math major. She is at her PHD program at the UofMN right now for infectious disease (she is a nurse) and no B- student yet still paid a lot of UG. My DD's 2nd best friend (B+ student) paid $25K a year total at St. Ben's. She is working at Medtronic now (biology major).
