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Lots of High School Seniors are waiting at their mailbox for some good news from their dream College/University. Many of the students who had the highest grades and SAT scores want to go to one of the larger private Research orientated Universities. If they don't get student aid due to their parents income, these Universities will cost over $50,000 a year.
Most of the prestige of Private Mid Sized Non Ivy League Universities like: Georgetown, Cornell, George Washington, Boston College, Norte Dame, Vanderbilt, Emory, Duke, etc. is based on their reputation for research and a number of highly paid World Renowned Professors.
Here is my question: Are Universities like this really all that great for the Undergraduate student? They are not small, but instead they are mid sized to large. The classes for students in their first two years of study are likely to be taught by Teaching Assistants in HUGE lecture halls or online, and if by chance one of these world renowned Professors teach a class it is more likely for Graduate Students and the Professor would rather be on Television talking about their research than talking to students.
The cost of these colleges is sky high and maybe half of the Public Ivy's like the University of VA or North Carolina.
I don't understand the appeal of these colleges for Undergraduates. I would much prefer my son went to a smaller private college (2000-5000 students), where quality instruction is stressed more than research and is taught in small interactive classes 10-25 students with close relationships between Professors and students.
What is you opinion about Undergraduates going to the type of Universities mentioned above?
Last edited by I'm Retired Now; 02-20-2014 at 12:02 PM..
Notre Dame doesn't use TA's....and it's not that big
I think most people go into the application process knowing that Notre Dame costs $56,000/year and if the aid doesn't come in and they can't afford to go there, they go elsewhere. Yes, there are people this time of year that don't have a good financial back up though.
Also know that most of the schools on your list are overly generous with their financial aid, more so than other schools so those that don't qualify for FA at other schools may very well get a handsome package at the schools on your list.
As for being good for undergrad--yes, they are fantastic schools for UG...
Lots of High School Seniors are waiting at their mailbox for some good news from their dream College/University. Many of the students who had the highest grades and SAT scores want to go to one of the larger private Research orientated Universities. If they don't get student aid due to their parents income, these Universities will cost over $50,000 a year.
Most of the prestige of Private Mid Sized Non Ivy League Universities like: Georgetown, Cornell, George Washington, Boston College, Norte Dame, Vanderbilt, Emory, Duke, etc. is based on their reputation for research and a number of highly paid World Renowned Professors.
Here is my question: Are Universities like this really all that great for the Undergraduate student? They are not small, but instead they are mid sized to large. The classes for students in their first two years of study are likely to be taught by Teaching Assistants in HUGE lecture halls or online, and if by chance one of these world renowned Professors teach a class it is more likely for Graduate Students and the Professor would rather be on Television talking about their research than talking to students.
The cost of these colleges is sky high and maybe half of the Public Ivy's like the University of VA or North Carolina.
I don't understand the appeal of these colleges for Undergraduates. I would much prefer my son went to a smaller private college (2000-5000 students), where quality instruction is stressed more than research and is taught in small interactive classes 10-25 students with close relationships between Professors and students.
What is you opinion about Undergraduates going to the type of Universities mentioned above?
My son is an undergraduate at a medium sized (4000 undergrads), private research university (Case Western). During high school he was an A student and he scored in the top 2% on his standardized tests. He was a very accomplished student athlete, winning several student athlete awards. He played 3 sports in high school and is playing football in college. Case Western is a Div 3 school so the student athletes are regular students who just happen to play sports. None of them got athletic scholarships.
He is enjoying his UG experience very much, except for the weather. His classes have all been taught by professors. There are TAs who grade papers and help the professors. There are GAs who run some of the lab/discussion classes. He did not have any classes with HUGE lecture halls or online instruction. The few classes that he did have that were on the larger side were taught by full professors and had smaller lab/discussion sessions run by grad students. It is important to note that even in large classes where grad students teach the lab/discussion session the professors teach the classes and are accessible.
Professors are VERY VERY accessible to students at Case. My son could not make the office hours listed by one of his professors because he had classes. She agreed to meet him at a different time. He did so well in one of his classes that the professor hired him to help out with grading papers.
My son had many AP credits so he only had a handful of general education classes. His upper level classes in his major are small and taught by very accomplished professors. Case Western has opportunities for UG students to take part in research. UG students can even get their research funded by the university.
He likes the size of the university. He knows lots of people, has small classes and very accessible professors. Yet the school is large enough to have many different activities and a number of greek organizations. He also likes being in a city and having access to public transportation and lots of things to do.
The downside is that private universities are expensive. He was a very good student in HS and Case gave him a very good scholarship. However, it is still more expensive than going to our state flagship (U of FL). I think that whether it is worth it to spend more on a private university is a very personal decision and is dependent on many things.
Here is my question: Are Universities like this really all that great for the Undergraduate student? They are not small, but instead they are mid sized to large. The classes for students in their first two years of study are likely to be taught by Teaching Assistants in HUGE lecture halls or online, and if by chance one of these world renowned Professors teach a class it is more likely for Graduate Students and the Professor would rather be on Television talking about their research than talking to students.
The cost of these colleges is sky high and maybe half of the Public Ivy's like the University of VA or North Carolina.
I don't understand the appeal of these colleges for Undergraduates. I would much prefer my son went to a smaller private college (2000-5000 students), where quality instruction is stressed more than research and is taught in small interactive classes 10-25 students with close relationships between Professors and students.
What is you opinion about Undergraduates going to the type of Universities mentioned above?
The experience can be isolating unless you put yourself out there. At a large University you are much more likely to get lost in the crowd at first. After you narrow down your major you start seeing familiar faces more and more often. One wonders, however, if its worth the cost at all anymore. In my family it wasn't a choice, we had to go. But if I had to pay for it myself I would be in major debt right now. In several industries having an undergraduate is an absolute mandatory. But not everyone should be going to college and there are fewer and fewer reasons to get a liberal arts degree (unless you just want to be really well educated). I majored in Philosophy and Humanities but now I work in financial services.
My experience at a large PUBLIC elite research university was great. One of the greatest advantages of the larger student population is diversity of opinion.
I was admitted to a lot of small private colleges and I'm glad I didn't enroll in any of them. Usually a student's experience is limited to whatever brand the college is touting (religion, women's rights, African American rights, liberalism, conservatism, etc.). Going to the larger elite university immersed me in an environment with an extremely diverse and intelligent set of ideas. Additionally, I never felt I was getting shafted due to the sheer size of the classrooms. A lot of times, the professor ended up teaching both the lecture and the discussion course.
I studied at two (technically) public universities, completing an undergrad St Andrews in the UK (technically public due to gov't funding) and my master's the University of Queensland in Brisbane, Australia.
The former was small with only 7,000 students while the latter sported 40,000. Both enjoy high rankings (global top 100) and are highly regarded in my field, International Relations.
I have never, ever had a lecture taught by a TA in either. TA performed virtually no front-of-house functions, being present only for the occasional counter-point in discussions and grading papers. In cases where they led a smaller tutorial group after the lecture, I *always* made a point to end up in the professor's group.
Attention given to the student depends entirely on the student. I had no trouble 1-on-1 time with my profs when I wanted it at St Andrews or UQ. It did help to be a gregarious 4.0 student with old fashioned sensibilities (ie repaying recommendation letters with a bottle of wine).
My college experiences have correlated directly with the effort I put into a given front. You could say that it's been an extremely self-directed experience. Coming from my experiences, I thus generally take an unforgiving stance towards those who b---- and moan about how college was "worthless", full of "whiners" and "left wing loons", or how they "didn't learn anything".
Most of the prestige of Private Mid Sized Non Ivy League Universities like: Georgetown, Cornell, George Washington, Boston College, Norte Dame, Vanderbilt, Emory, Duke, etc. is based on their reputation for research and a number of highly paid World Renowned Professors.
When did Cornell drop out of Ivy league?
The amount of knowledge a university can pass to it's students is directly related to the amount of knowledge within the university itself. Professors that are at the top of their fields have the most to offer their students.
Quote:
Originally Posted by I'm Retired Now
The cost of these colleges is sky high and maybe half of the Public Ivy's like the University of VA or North Carolina.
Don't get stuck on the term "Public Ivy". It doesn't mean anything. It's a term coined by an author to describe colleges that have the "look and feel" of ivies. It takes into consideration architecture, age, and visual appearance among other things. This is very subjective and not very telling about the quality of education.
I don't understand the appeal of these colleges for Undergraduates. I would much prefer my son went to a smaller private college (2000-5000 students), where quality instruction is stressed more than research and is taught in small interactive classes 10-25 students with close relationships between Professors and students.
What is you opinion about Undergraduates going to the type of Universities mentioned above?
It is all about the resources.
In my major, accounting, most schools had about 5 upper level accounting classes. I had 30 to choose from because our program was big, we cross listed with our very good MBA and Masters of Accounting program, and we had about 5 to 10 times the number of faculty of a typical accounting program. You could specialize in tax, international accounting, ERISA, mergers & acquisitions, etc. that other schools didn't even have a single class in.
You had 10 professors to get to know and each had a different specialty. Didn't like a particular accounting professor, no big deal, never had to take a class with him or her again.
The number of campus organizations were like 2,000 or something like that. 5 just related to accounting and maybe 30-40 for business. Easy to meet people, learn how to network, and get leadership experience.
If you wanted to switch majors, do a minor/double major or just take a class in another field, you could because the school had just about every major you could think of.
We had a dedicated library and career service office just for the business students. The main campus library had access to every electronic database you could possible think of to do some serious research for papers and an army of librarians or library studies students to help us.
Because of the size of our school and reputation, every major firm recruited on campus and a lot of major corporations did as well. We had dedicated staff that helped us get internships, externships or co-ops.
We had clinics like a consulting lab, a media lab, a student run hedge fund, a student edited business journal, etc. My college held a big symposium every few years where major industry players visited campus. The faculty that were doing the research, often asked for help (I got paid $10 a hour putting together a index for a book a prof wrote and he ended up recommending to a major firm for an internship).
The bureacracy was large, but learning how to fight through red tape to get things done was a useful skill to learn. Learning how to take advantage of such tremendous resources without anyone holding your hand was another useful skill.
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