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If the OP is the only living parent the child will probably qualify for some aid, but if there is another living parent it may move the child to the point where he will not.
Not true at all. It does not matter how many living parents the child has. It will not move the child to the point where he will not qualify for any aid.
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Originally Posted by Momma_bear
I agree with others who say that the child should apply to a bunch of different schools and let the schools tell the child what he will get. There is no point is crossing a school off the list based on list price.
I agree. The child should apply to at least the top 3 schools for the field the child is interested in.
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Originally Posted by Momma_bear
I also agree with others who say to look at the USNWR smaller, top 50 (but not top 10). Many of these schools give significant merit based awards. That is where my son wound up for college and it has worked out well for him so far.
Not worth it. The good faculty flock to the top schools. It will be unusual to find good faculty in a program that is ranked below top 10.
I plugged in $125k income, zero assets, only child, two parents, from Kansas into the Harvard net price estimator a few days ago and it came back with an annual scholarship of around $46k towards the total cost of $63k. The family would be expected to pay about $17k a year.
For a top school, I would think that would be completely worth it. It is almost unarguable that a really good school (Ivy League, MIT, etc.) opens doors state schools will not, earlier in life. And I say that as a graduate of a state school.
"Good" programs are found all over the places. Harvard may be the most famous school in the United States but it doesn't have the "best" program in every field.
And for a 18 year old high schooler it's a moot point because he wants to go to the most well-rounded school. The quality of the faculty is important but so are many other factors and there really isn't that much difference between the faculty of a top 10 college or a top 20 college. Some of the best collegiate experience is found at the liberal arts colleges because they tend to have a better reputation for high quality teaching and classroom experiences.
The graduate level is where the quality of the program and the faculty's reputation does become paramount. But how you wrote your sentence implied that faculty outside the "top 10" are terrible, which is grossly misleading and silly and incorrect.
Quote:
Originally Posted by NJBest
Not worth it. The good faculty flock to the top schools. It will be unusual to find good faculty in a program that is ranked below top 10.
Not true at all. It does not matter how many living parents the child has. It will not move the child to the point where he will not qualify for any aid.
I agree. The child should apply to at least the top 3 schools for the field the child is interested in.
Not worth it. The good faculty flock to the top schools. It will be unusual to find good faculty in a program that is ranked below top 10.
Okay, so what happens when he doesn't get into a top 10 program? Statistically, the odds are against him, and it doesn't appear he has significant hooks. Should students who aren't going to top 10 schools/programs just not go to college at all?
Last edited by strawflower; 12-13-2014 at 09:30 PM..
"Good" programs are found all over the places. Harvard may be the most famous school in the United States but it doesn't have the "best" program in every field.
And for a 18 year old high schooler it's a moot point because he wants to go to the most well-rounded school. The quality of the faculty is important but so are many other factors and there really isn't that much difference between the faculty of a top 10 college or a top 20 college. Some of the best collegiate experience is found at the liberal arts colleges because they tend to have a better reputation for high quality teaching and classroom experiences.
The graduate level is where the quality of the program and the faculty's reputation does become paramount. But how you wrote your sentence implied that faculty outside the "top 10" are terrible, which is grossly misleading and silly and incorrect.
I couldn't agree more about good programs being all over the place. That's why I always suggest that you look for the good programs and not the best generally rated schools. Harvard is not a great choice for many areas of study.
18-year olds will go to college for all sorts of reasons... from wanting to work for NASA to just because their parents told them to. I don't see how your generalization fits all 18-year olds at all.
I didn't mean to imply that all faculty outside of a top-10 program is terrible. I really just meant what I said. It's unusual to find good faculty outside of a top-10 program. This generally has to do with the fact that programs that rank near the top also obtain the greatest amount of funding for academic research. That doesn't mean that good faculty doesn't exist outside of a top-10 program. They sure do. Just not common.... and even then, they are mixed with the rest of the faculty at that school.
Okay, so what happens when he doesn't get into a top 10 program? Statistically, the odds are against him, and it doesn't appear he has significant hooks. Should students who aren't going to top 10 schools/programs just not go to college at all?
There's plenty of options in that case. A common option is to re-assess credentials and re-apply. Another option is to apply to other schools. There is a gentleman across the street from me who did not get into the undergrad bio program at JHU. He decided to intern at Cleveland Clinic for a year and re-applied. He got in the second time around. He could have easily just applied to Stanford or another school. But he was determined to get into a particular program and he didn't give up.
Should student's who don't go to a top 10 program just not go? It depends on what they are looking for out of a college. If the student wants to go to an "elite school", then he/she should exhaust their options for that before settling for something else.
One of my nephews attended Columbia on a full academic scholarship even though his father makes a very good income.
Another nephew was offered a full ride academic scholarship to Northwestern, but turned it down in favor of attending his father's alma mater (a smaller private liberal arts college.)
So I guess I'm saying that full ride scholarships are available at elite universities for the academically gifted.
Nope. To be clear, a full ride means you need to get everything free including tuition, books, fees, and room and board. A "full ride" implies no financial aid. Ivy's, MIT, and Stanford don't offer merit aid. So when someone say my so-and-so got a free ride at Harvard they really didn't. They should of said my smart so-and-so didn't have to pay a nickel because we could not afford it. Many times, the US government and your state contributed a lot via FAFSA. It would be like saying I got a "free ride" to a community college because our parents were broke. Yes. Their endowment kicked in and gave a bright student $$'s. But the school wants to extract all it can from FAFSA 1st. It's fair to call it free but not a "free ride". To me and others, a "free ride" has nothing to do with income. Only merit based where everyone is competing for the same prize.
It's my hot button. I hear parents brag about how their daughter soccer star got a "free ride" to a public university. No they didn't. The college gave $5K a year because they were a good succor player and the government paid the rest.
Last edited by MN-Born-n-Raised; 12-14-2014 at 08:00 AM..
Ok, my oldest is a junior...tons of extra curriculars...top 3 class rank (Good school 450ish in class), will be natl. merit finalist, taking SAT soon but PSAT equates to 1530ish. Solid extra curriculars etc. Caucasian from the state of KS, single parent family, family income 125k.
He's considering a couple of majors, one of which a public university in the area is as good as anybody in and that would likely be a full-ride (or close enough). It's also in a field where you don't go to gradschool so no concerns about that aspect.
I'm naive to what (if any financial help) you can get at some of the top private schools (very rough idea, ball-park) if he were to look at them for something like a business or finance major.
Normally I would think "not much" but the income level is pretty modest if not chump change by many dual-income standards in the higher cost northeast so I didn't know if that impacted anything.
I know there are many other variables but in a general case I looking for something rough like if Harvard is 65k a year would them maybe let him in for 1/2 price? 75%? Etc.
Sorry if this seems like a dumb question for you and yes I will be filling out the FAFSA and so forth but I just doing a quick "smell test" if anyone happens to be able to ballpark.
Some top colleges seem to be more focused on specific traits.
* Dartmouth has a high percentage of class valedictorians.
* Stanford focuses on demonstrated innovation.
* MIT stares harder at students who get a perfect math score on the ACT or SAT.
* Service Academies look for athleticism and are big on leadership.
* Harvard and other Ivy's really likes students who heavily give back to the community. (Hint: they want to know if you will you give back $$'s to their endowment later in life?)
You didn't talk about your son taking AP or college in the school classes. If they didn't offer it, I'm not so sure if admissions is going to consider it a "good" school. If they were offered and he didn't take them, that's not a positive sign. As Rzzz and others mentioned, it's dog-eat-dog getting into the best of the best.
My son applied to Stanford and the Service Academies (as well as the UofMN). On the phone, Harvard admissions told him he had great stats but he didn't show that he gave back to the community enough. Working 20 hours a week, a three sport athlete, and taking college in 11th and 12th grade fills up the weeks. He had typical volunteer hours. So he didn't apply because it's a lot of work to author killer essays and he really wanted to go to Stanford a lot more.
In the end Stanford turned him down. Like your son he got top scores on his standardized tests. He was a captain of 2 sports and letter winner of three. He was ranked # 1 out of 650 students. Great interview skills (a Stanford Alumni interview him after he applied and he felt it went really well). He was also a full time college student in 11th and 12th grade. He was a biology, chemistry, and calc tutor in 11th and 12th grade at the local college. In the standardized college chemistry course at age 17, he tested in the top 1/2 of 1% which is a national test.
But the Stanford interview was really focuses on his innovation. What club or charity did he start. Did he start a small business when he was younger. So Stanford is looking for innovators. A perfect ACT will only mean someone is going to give you a 2nd or 3rd look. There are THOUSANDS of high school valedictorians. But to Stanford, prove that you are innovative.
I knew I would be paying out the nose so I didn't encourage him to apply at at any Ivy's. He wanted to serve and do something different and got into a couple of service academies that he applied to and decided that was his best path. Fast forward. He will be applying for the Rhodes scholarship next year as recommended by his advisers.
As Rzzz and others said, you need a hook for the school of choice. It's a lot of work to apply. So figure out where his skills best match the school of choice.
I knew I would be paying out the nose so I didn't encourage him to apply at at any Ivy's. He wanted to serve and do something different and got into a couple of service academies that he applied to and decided that was his best path. Fast forward. He will be applying for the Rhodes scholarship next year as recommended by his advisers.
My parents did the same thing, many, many years ago. They discouraged me from applying to any of the Ivies because they were scared by the sticker prices. I ended up with acceptances into a couple of tuition-free schools, including a service academy.
I'm glad it worked out for your son, but I've always regretted not applying to at least one or two to at least see what it would have actually cost had I been accepted. My wife attended a USNWR top-3 school for undergrad, and I'm consistently impressed by the opportunities and experiences she had in college, as well as the accomplishments of her peers. I did wind up at an Ivy for grad school, but that made me even more wistful for what could have been.
Last edited by Mr. Zero; 12-14-2014 at 09:21 AM..
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