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Exactly who is going to feed, house and pay for all living expenses for these interns until they figure out what they’re suited to do?
Same way people afford to live while in college.
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I’m sorry, but as a parent I’m not taking that on having zero clue how long I’ll be footing all the bills. I told my kids to get through college in 4 years with no summer school. And they did. At the end of that time, they had full time well paying jobs and were off my payroll. Your plan would make parents responsible for who knows how long and with no end date if their kid keeps changing internships. No thanks.
There will have to be some limit as to how long students do the internships for.
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But none of that matters because most companies are not going to hire people who know nothing and take years to train if they can even be trained.
Then if no company is willing to do that, then there won't be any future employees in their field.
A kid who comes into college as a pre med major should get weeded out if they can’t pass Chem 101.
But the professors should have to actually teach chem 101, and give exams that measure the students' ability in chem 101, and not measure things like jumping through stupid hoops.
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Kids who aren’t capable of succeeding in what they think will be their major should pick another one.
They should be weeded out in high school and not end up in a pre-med program unless they are able to succeed in such a program.
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And that’s what most of them do. They don’t drop out. They also don’t spend decades moaning that they could have been a neurosurgeon if only they hadn’t gotten weeded out by some professor. Most have enough self awareness to get it’s all on them.
There will have to be some limit as to how long students do the internships for.
Then if no company is willing to do that, then there won't be any future employees in their field.
So interns will take out loans for living expenses while doing what may be multiple internships over some undetermined number of years?
How in the world is that better than going to college to learn what you need to do to get a paying job after 4 years? Is this just so those who can’t pass college classes others get through with ease get a shot at what they think they deserve to do as a career?
And sure there will be future employees. They’re called college graduates.
I suppose you don't consider farming a job either. Or the military.
Both are obviously jobs, but neither are a private sector job. Farming you are working for yourself. Military is a government job.
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Bottom line is you haven't had to hire or manage or be responsible for others. You don't have breadth or depth.
Here's some tips.
a. Go to the best, most challenging college you can.
I disagree. I say, go to the least expensive college you can.
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b. Live in a dorm.
Agree. And try to live at a distance where you can go home for a 3 or 4 day weekend but not a regular weekend.
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c. AP out of the gen eds,
Agree, those classes are a waste of time.
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but don't AP out of the weed-out classes. Take the weed outs because they will prepare you for the material and challenges that are coming up.
Strongly disagree. AP out of the weed-out classes, so that you can focus on getting the piece of paper, and can focus on the classes where you actually learn things.
What I don't think people understand is at a school where, for example, Calc 1 and 2 are weedout classes, and 3 and 4 are not, it means that calc 1 and 2 are not about learning calculus, but rather about jumping through stupid hoops, like skipping your grandmother's funeral, or taking the exam the Wednesday night after Thanksgiving after the dorms have been closed for hours, and doing more useless busy work than you have time for. Calc 3 and 4 are actually about learning calculus.
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d. Take the 8 AM classes. Often a lot of people won't so the class is smaller and more open to discussion.
That depends on whether or not you are a morning person. If you are a morning person, take the 8 AM classes. If you are a night person, skip the 8 AM classes. But, in practice, many required classes are only offered once a semester or year, so you may not have much of a choice.
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e. Get out of your comfort zone and apply to jobs around the country. Broaden your experience.
Again, that's up to somebody's preference. Some want to live near family. Some don't. Keep in mind that money earned or job satisfaction are not the end goal, but overall life satisfaction is the end goal, and different people will define overall life satisfaction differently. But I will say that the years between high school and having children are the ideal time to get out of your comfort zone, as you say, and explore other areas. But once you have children, you will want a 9 to 5 job close to your family, so that grandparents and extended family can be a part of your children's life, so that grandma can babysit if needed, etc. But that's less of an issue between high school and having children.
So interns will take out loans for living expenses while doing what may be multiple internships over some undetermined number of years?
It would be cheaper than going to college.
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How in the world is that better than going to college to learn what you need to do to get a paying job after 4 years? Is this just so those who can’t pass college classes others get through with ease get a shot at what they think they deserve to do as a career?
And sure there will be future employees. They’re called college graduates.
Because colleges do not teach what is needed in the real world, and they are expensive.
But the professors should have to actually teach chem 101, and give exams that measure the students' ability in chem 101, and not measure things like jumping through stupid hoops.
They should be weeded out in high school and not end up in a pre-med program unless they are able to succeed in such a program.
You clearly believe in the just world fallacy.
If a kid isn’t getting the material presented in class, it’s up to them to do one or all of the following: Meet with the Professor during his office hours to ask questions. Go to the TA and ask questions. Go to the Chem tutoring program for help if one exists which they do in most universities. Find an upperclassman who has passed the class to tutor them. There are ALL sorts of ways to be successful. Complaining the professor isn’t teaching you in your preferred style ain’t one of them.
No one gets weeded out of college classes in HS. HS is a time to try classes in different disciplines to hopefully figure out what you may want to study in college. Or to figure out college isn’t for you and focus on a trade. Either way, HS classes are not weed out classes for college or trade school.
I believe in the reality that no one is going to hold your hand in college and walk you through the 4 years. If you need help, find the readily available resources. Maybe even other students in your class who are passing with ease.
If a kid isn’t getting the material presented in class, it’s up to them to do one or all of the following: Meet with the Professor during his office hours to ask questions. Go to the TA and ask questions. Go to the Chem tutoring program for help if one exists which they do in most universities. Find an upperclassman who has passed the class to tutor them. There are ALL sorts of ways to be successful. Complaining the professor isn’t teaching you in your preferred style ain’t one of them.
I never said a professor has to teach in a student's preferred learning syle.
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No one gets weeded out of college classes in HS. HS is a time to try classes in different disciplines to hopefully figure out what you may want to study in college. Or to figure out college isn’t for you and focus on a trade. Either way, HS classes are not weed out classes for college or trade school.
I disagree.
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I believe in the reality that no one is going to hold your hand in college and walk you through the 4 years. If you need help, find the readily available resources. Maybe even other students in your class who are passing with ease.
The premise is that the classes we are talking about are classes where basically nobody passes.
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Because the basic engineering classes have nothing to do with real world engineering. And being willing to skip a funeral or take an exam after the dorms closed for Thanksgiving break has nothing to do with being a good engineer.
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Well, I don't know what engineering classes you took or what field you majored in, or at what school.
I will tell you that in my case, I'm a degreed mechanical engineer, coming up on 40 years experience as a practicing engineer and engineering manager, I went to a very well respected private university that consistently ranks in the top 20 or so for science and engineering; I also have hired and worked alongside engineers who went to comparable schools as well as a number who attended large state schools for their engineering education. I've worked my whole career in private industry working for companies that design build and sell products for mass production and require a profit in their activity.
At least in my experience, the matters learned in both the initial Freshman Big 3 (calculus differential and integral, chemistry, physics) as well as all the introductory engineering specific courses (strength of materials, materials science, classical thermodynamics, advanced math, basic electric circuits, testing methods, statics and dynamics, etc., etc., etc., have continued to come up during my career and the careers of the engineers I've worked alongside and managed.
For example, I simply cannot conceive how a mechanical engineer could do her job without proficiency in free-body diagrams, summing forces and moments, working with the laws of motion, properties of engineering materials, thermodynamics, heat transfer, analysis of static and non static systems of forces, resonances and damping, etc., etc.,etc.
Maybe you've had too much exposure to "engineers" with inverted commas who spend their whole lives doing plug-and-chug on problems set up by actual engineers and who couldn't engineer their way out of a paper bag. Well, companies that have to limit their personnel expenses and have to get things done, avoid hiring such people.
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What I don't think people understand is at a school where, for example, Calc 1 and 2 are weedout classes, and 3 and 4 are not, it means that calc 1 and 2 are not about learning calculus,...
Never heard that nomenclature. In all the actual engineering schools I was familiar with when I was a student - and I'll grant you the terminology might have been changed - the first two semesters of engineering math were differential and integral calculus. Some folks APd out, but the level of rigor was higher in university Math 101/102 than it was in high school AP calculus. When you got to DiffE and VCalc, you'd find out that just because you APd out of those first two semesters didn't necessarily mean you had a mastery of what your classmates had covered. The third semester was typically differential equations, fourth was vector calculus, fifth was partial differential equations. At least for mechanical engineers, after that we got into analysis of complex variables and subjects that were selected more for mechanical engineers, whereas for example the EEs got into a different set of math subjects. But the first five semesters were pretty much consistent across all the engineering departments.
Yeah, there were a lot of kids who freaked out when they came from being valedictorian in their public high school and their first math quiz they got a 7. But plenty of us were getting 85 or 90. And most of the kids who had that shocker, pulled up their britches, joined a bunch of study groups, took tutoring, and finished with respectable grades. Weed-out courses will only weed out those who shouldn't have been taking them in the first place, either from lack of preparation or insufficient motivation and focus.
Well, I don't know what engineering classes you took or what field you majored in, or at what school.
I will tell you that in my case, I'm a degreed mechanical engineer, coming up on 40 years experience as a practicing engineer and engineering manager, I went to a very well respected private university that consistently ranks in the top 20 or so for science and engineering; I also have hired and worked alongside engineers who went to comparable schools as well as a number who attended large state schools for their engineering education. I've worked my whole career in private industry working for companies that design build and sell products for mass production and require a profit in their activity.
At least in my experience, the matters learned in both the initial Freshman Big 3 (calculus differential and integral, chemistry, physics) as well as all the introductory engineering specific courses (strength of materials, materials science, classical thermodynamics, advanced math, basic electric circuits, testing methods, statics and dynamics, etc., etc., etc., have continued to come up during my career and the careers of the engineers I've worked alongside and managed.
For example, I simply cannot conceive how a mechanical engineer could do her job without proficiency in free-body diagrams, summing forces and moments, working with the laws of motion, properties of engineering materials, thermodynamics, heat transfer, analysis of static and non static systems of forces, resonances and damping, etc., etc.,etc.
Maybe you've had too much exposure to "engineers" with inverted commas who spend their whole lives doing plug-and-chug on problems set up by actual engineers and who couldn't engineer their way out of a paper bag. Well, companies that have to limit their personnel expenses and have to get things done, avoid hiring such people.
It might depend on what branch of engineering one is in.
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