Snow Tires (buy, cars, best)

[otterprods]

Originally Posted by jazzlover

I agree with almost all Idunn said, except the last sentence. Driving on snow and ice IS a big deal if the driver doesn't have a clue about how to do it, which may be the case here. Driving the roads in winter around Conifer is a p*** poor place to learn. The OP's son needs to get some winter driving training, even if it is informal, from a competent and experienced winter driver. Snow tires can't fix ignorant winter driving.

He obviously meant that you don't need to be terrified of it, which would impair your abilities. All Idunn's previous statements made it clear that one should have a healthy respect for snow and ice when driving on it. We don't know that the plan is to just learn from scratch alone on the streets of Conifer, so why assume that? I agree that training of some sort is a must though.

Jazz, I think I'd like you in person and I certainly value your posts, but sometimes I wish you'd dial down the cynicism just a tad. Maybe that's like trying to teach a 100 year old Donkey to stop trying to kick me in the shins though.

[Vistaian]

Originally Posted by otterprods

Maybe that's like trying to teach a 100 year old Donkey to stop trying to kick me in the shins though.

You got that right. I learned early on not to beat my head against the jazz wall.

I feel sorry for new members of the forum who ask questions, get a response from jazz, and then don't go and read some of jazz's other posts. One can't get to the good info jazz has to offer until one learns to peel off all the layers of cynicism, bias, and bitterness first.

[jazzlover]

"Cynicism" usually doesn't just happen, it usually comes from years of experience dealing with the same ignorance and stupidity thousands of times. Winter driving skills are one of those things where, yes, I'm extremely cynical. I've watched 40 years+ worth of winter driving ignorance and idiocy--much of it from people who obviously lack much of any winter driving skill at all--way more than enough ignorance and stupidity for me to be pretty cynical about the skills of anybody coming from a "winter-less" climate as far as their ability to drive safely on a snowpacked or icy road. I've driven for all of those years without being involved in a single winter driving "accident" where I was at fault. That said, it has taken every bit of driving skill that I could muster on innumerable occasions to keep from getting hit by some winter driving ignoramus who had no business driving on anything but a dry road. So, cynical? You bet.

[wanneroo]

Here's what I have always said:

1. With snow tires you get what you pay for.
2. If you live above 6000 ft in Colorado or do mountain driving on a regular basis, they are worth having.
3. If you don't know anything about winter driving or want to improve your skills, the only real winter driving school in the USA is right in Steamboat Springs(Bridgestone Winter Driving School). You use their vehicles on their ice tracks.
4. While it's nice to have AWD, in most cases that means nothing or counts for little in regular driving. What matters is how much grip the tire has. When the grip limit of the tire is exceeded all these systems like AWD or vehicle dynamic control can assist the driver but there is only so much they can do.

[Arrby]

Originally Posted by wanneroo

\
4. While it's nice to have AWD, in most cases that means nothing or counts for little in regular driving. What matters is how much grip the tire has. When the grip limit of the tire is exceeded all these systems like AWD or vehicle dynamic control can assist the driver but there is only so much they can do.

Nope, can't agree with number 4. Awd - at least the better systems - can make a dramatic difference in everyday driving. Also, awd improves your traction and control in rainy conditions as well as snow. A good awd drive system can detect tire slip and restore traction in a tiny fraction of a second in conditions where a 2wd car will just keep the tire spinning all the way into the ditch.

However, if I had to choose between good snow tires on a 2wd system and all season tires on awd for snow and ice I'd take the snow tires every time; for the improved braking if nothing else. But that is fortunately not the only choice.

Not to high-jack the thread, but is there room here for discussion of experiences with some of the different awd systems and their good and bad points? I will note that I find the Mercedes 4-matic to be little short of amazing.

[Miss Hepburn]

Originally Posted by Arrby

Not to high-jack the thread,..... Mercedes 4-matic to be little short of amazing.

That was good info.

[Sobe Itsavized]

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=kRniF4JQN2U


https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=0_MXK2nzt2Y


https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=mryGnENTsoI


https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=XyLgYskj-oc

[jazzlover]

^Were I to buy an AWD vehicle, it would be either a Subaru Forester or the new generation (2015) Outback. They simply outclass any other AWD in per dollar of vehicle cost for AWD performance. If Subaru were really smart, they would offer their excellent Boxer turbodiesel in the US. A Forester or Outback with turbodiesel performance and likely 40+ mpg highway fuel economy (and probably near 30 mpg+ in the city cycle) might have me looking at one sooner rather than much, much later.

[cheapo911]

Thats a great set of videos by the way. Clearly Subaru has the better of the AWD systems. Now not saying AWD is a different make is absolutely useless by any means. We just got our first AWD vehicle in our family a year ago (2014 Ford Edge) and the traction gain is very noticeable compared to the FWD Edge it replaced. When I say noticeable, its only from a stop or a slight roll where you will see performance benefits. Also should note that the traction control does a very good job of killing power to prevent overseer in a turn (unfortunately for the child in me).

But going back to tires, yes a dedicated set of winter tires will be helpful and noticeable compared to all seasons. There are plenty of youtube videos to show this point, but heres one of the decent ones.


https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=JGfvyPtYR0Y

[Sobe Itsavized]

I like this one. It shows the comparisons in more contrast given the overlaid videos and cars especially in that right turn.


https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=GlYEMH10Z4s