[7 Wishes]

Originally Posted by grecostimpy

Got hit around Norwalk this morning in a squall on I-95. Was the oddest thing....big honking flakes. Then beautiful sunshine 10 minutes later..

Spend a winter in Buffalo or Rochester and you'll see that all the time (though often it will just get cloudy instead of sunny )

[CT_Native]

Originally Posted by Cambium

Water, especially deep, not only produce and use so much energy but they take a while to warm and cool. That's without ice on it. Now imagine how cold and how long they stay cooler with ice on them. I saw large piece of ice floating in the sound yesterday. No camera. :-(

Its like filling a glass with cold water, put it in room temperature. Eventually water warms up.
But fill a glass with cold water, put ice cubes in it and it will take a lot longer.

Water is certainly special in so many ways. We can thank its two hydrogen bonds for such an incredibly high heat capacity and heats of fusion & vaporization -- also thanks to water's hydrogen bonds, its unique density characteristics.

Your glass of water example is not telling, though. Sure, ice indirectly lowers the temperature of a glass of water, but it's not that simple when talking about a larger volume of water, like the Long Island Sound, and what's happening with the weather and water temperatures.

Again, very uniquely, water's density is, of course, lower at its solid state than its liquid state. Water actually peaks in density at around 4 degrees C, or around 39 degrees F. So when we're talking about the LI Sound FREEZING, that is an absolutely incredible feat.

A few things are going on. Of course, LI Sound is salt water -- it's freezing point will be naturally lower than 32F right off the bat. Also, in an ideal situation, essentially all the water between the bottom and the surface must be cooled to 39F before water at the top begins to cool below 39F to freezing. As water cools (in temperatures above 39F), it becomes slightly more dense and sinks, pushing warmer, less dense water up to the surface. Now the newly circulated warm water must cool, sink, and push up other warm(er) waters. Fast-forward this cycle to where all layers are now at 39F. The surface water begins to cool and now becomes less dense as its temperature falls below 39F, and at 32F, water's crystal lattice is defined (but salty water freezes below 32F). Ice will continue to fall in temperature if conditions continue to draw away heat energy from the ice.

We're drawing heat from the water to melt the ice, consequently lowering the temperature of the water, but so very minimally. The ice itself is so minimally making differences in such a large body of water, though. More technically, we're drawing heat from the water into cold(er) air during the winter (on a macro scale), and then warming up cool(er) water during the spring, and first needing to raise the temperature of ice to its freezing temperature, melting it, and raising the temperature of liquid water (all of those take so much energy -- the larger volume, the larger heat capacity). During the spring, think of LI Sound as the "ice cube" that's requiring heat energy from its surroundings to increase the temperature of its waters, effectively drawing heat from the air in the region. It takes a while to warm water because it's water! And if the air is cool during the spring, the water will be relatively minimally warmed. Just wanting everyone to be well-informed!

It's awesome to be observing this, and it will be fun to see if anyone will be voluntarily swimming this summer!

[mels]

I swim off the coast of eastern Canada almost every summer. I will have no problem swimming in LIS this summer, I guarantee it!

[CT_Native]

Coldest I've done was near 50F! Once in the Blue Ridge Mountains of North Carolina (river/runoff), and once on the Maine coast, both during the summer!

[Cambium]

Originally Posted by CT_Native

Water is certainly special in so many ways. We can thank its two hydrogen bonds for such an incredibly high heat capacity and heats of fusion & vaporization -- also thanks to water's hydrogen bonds, its unique density characteristics.

Your glass of water example is not telling, though. Sure, ice indirectly lowers the temperature of a glass of water, but it's not that simple when talking about a larger volume of water, like the Long Island Sound, and what's happening with the weather and water temperatures.

Again, very uniquely, water's density is, of course, lower at its solid state than its liquid state. Water actually peaks in density at around 4 degrees C, or around 39 degrees F. So when we're talking about the LI Sound FREEZING, that is an absolutely incredible feat.

A few things are going on. Of course, LI Sound is salt water -- it's freezing point will be naturally lower than 32F right off the bat. Also, in an ideal situation, essentially all the water between the bottom and the surface must be cooled to 39F before water at the top begins to cool below 39F to freezing. As water cools (in temperatures above 39F), it becomes slightly more dense and sinks, pushing warmer, less dense water up to the surface. Now the newly circulated warm water must cool, sink, and push up other warm(er) waters. Fast-forward this cycle to where all layers are now at 39F. The surface water begins to cool and now becomes less dense as its temperature falls below 39F, and at 32F, water's crystal lattice is defined (but salty water freezes below 32F). Ice will continue to fall in temperature if conditions continue to draw away heat energy from the ice.

We're drawing heat from the water to melt the ice, consequently lowering the temperature of the water, but so very minimally. The ice itself is so minimally making differences in such a large body of water, though. More technically, we're drawing heat from the water into cold(er) air during the winter (on a macro scale), and then warming up cool(er) water during the spring, and first needing to raise the temperature of ice to its freezing temperature, melting it, and raising the temperature of liquid water (all of those take so much energy -- the larger volume, the larger heat capacity). During the spring, think of LI Sound as the "ice cube" that's requiring heat energy from its surroundings to increase the temperature of its waters, effectively drawing heat from the air in the region. It takes a while to warm water because it's water! And if the air is cool during the spring, the water will be relatively minimally warmed. Just wanting everyone to be well-informed!

It's awesome to be observing this, and it will be fun to see if anyone will be voluntarily swimming this summer!

Yeah, I'm glad you mentioned that because I thought I was alone in that fascination of seeing the sound freeze over (2 yrs in a row now part of at least). Just the thought of the process is amazing.

Great post! One thing, the Sea "Surface" Temps we record are just that, from the surface or near, not the middle or bottom. So the ice is 100% playing a role in making it colder. Then also think about the reflection of the sun which usually heats up the top of water. Sun cant penetrate through ice so it doesn't warm as fast.


There's a site that shows the mixing, winds, and temps of the depth below. Cant find it. Pretty cool to see.

I just left a post in link below regarding the topic but more about the "phase" of the oceans warm/cool episodes. The Atlantic has been in a warm phase but might start to be switching out of it now.

//www.city-data.com/forum/weath...emisphere.html

[Cambium]

So I just did a double take looking at my station.........

Not only struggled past mid 30s today but..... in fact..., right now at 4pm its 32°???? Nuts.
Normal max is upper 40s.

Dewpoint is 4F.
Winds gusting to 35mph which means one thing... Feels like 18° outside. Nuts.

I don't see many if any 50s in sight the rest of this month. Be lucky to get 40s everyday

[Cambium]

I agree with this and might add to say "localized" spots of over 4" somewhere

https://twitter.com/LeeGoldbergABC7/status/578301325718487040/photo/1




Some just give a bigger range but 2"+ seems to be the consensus with models and forecasters.

https://twitter.com/BradNBCCT/status/578293985422106624/photo/1




Which model do you believe for Philly? lol

https://twitter.com/6abcadamjoseph/status/578290940957216768/photo/1




https://twitter.com/NWSBoston/status/578300150956892160/photo/1

"It looks like some snow will accompany the arrival of spring on Friday, but accumulations remain very uncertain"

[Poseidon3290]

Took this for you cambium my weather for this week!

[Cambium]

Originally Posted by JMagliola

Took this for you cambium my weather for this week!

Ugh, how boring and miserable. Lol. Believe me, I wouldn't mind a few 50s & 60s but keep 80s for July and august.

Speaking of 50s and 60s... None in sight till April. I assume there will be a day we pop into the 50s again this month but its looking cold overall and we should finish well below normal.

I'm burning wood like it was mid winter. Sounds like it too outside.

[Cambium]

Ha, that's cool. They have New Rochelle and Milford listed.

20% chance of 4-6". All it takes is a stronger storm, a bit more precip, or a bit slower.

NWS New York, NY Winter Weather Page